Please add option to keep layer break

Discussion in 'CloneDVD' started by fordman, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. fordman

    fordman Well-Known Member

    As the subject says, please add an option to retain the seamless flag that corresponds to the original layer break position. The default and unchangeable behavior is that CloneDVD removes this, even when I am preparing the files for a dual layer blank.

    I further clean up the files with PGCEdit, and if there have been significant modifications from the original, i.e. deletion of cells corresponding to error zones, it can be hard to find the original cell without looking at the individual cell times. Other programs like DVDFab allow you to keep the flag when ripping, and I think it would enhance CloneDVD if it provided the same option.

  2. Chapman Photography

    Chapman Photography Well-Known Member

    I'll second that
  3. mike20021969

    mike20021969 Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  4. fordman

    fordman Well-Known Member

    "....doesn't make any difference to the copy?" I'm not sure what you mean by that, but rest assured that having a non-seamless flag (the better name for what we are talking about) that corresponds to the physical layer break IS important to many DVD players, especially older ones. Without it, you may encounter a lock-up/freeze when the player encounters the end of the first layer. The flag provides a pause and alerts the player that it must switch layers at a specific sector.

    Yes, I looked at both of your links. The first illustrates the tedious task I am currently saddled with to put the seamless flag back on the cell that it was originally at before CloneDVD stripped it. That supports my rationale for requesting that leaving it alone be added as an option - thanks!

    In the second one, Webslinger asserts that it is not possible to keep it because CloneDVD is a transcoder, and references other transcoders as not being able to keep it. First of all, I THINK he's making the point that if you are transcoding a dual layer disc to a single layer disc, the non-seamless flag corresponding to the original layer break is irrelevant. I agree with that case - as a matter of a fact, it would be undesireable to keep it as your player might pause needlessly during the movie. On the other hand, I believe DVDShrink DOES have an option to remove the non-seamless/LB flag, so it is an example of a transcoder that provides the option, except that DVDShrink's default is to keep it. Finally, if it is possible for CloneDVD to remove the flag, it is certainly possible, and EASIER, for it to leave it alone! As it is, CloneDVD is hardwired for people wishing to transcode their dual layer DVDs to a single layer copy, but with the price of dual layer blanks so so, I've chosen to not bother with that any more.

    My typical ripping scenario is:

    1. Rip with CloneDVD (AnyDVD active) with the dual layer profile (100% quality).

    2. Clean up the files in PGCEdit, and run through the steps in your first link to re-insert the flag in the original position.

    3. Burn the files directly with ImgBurn's "build" mode. This allows me to select the original layer break point and provides a cleaned up copy that is closest to the functionality of the original DVD, minus the nasty protection (some artifacts of which are retained when using CloneCD or other ISO building software to make an image directly with AnyDVD active - CloneDVD cleans up the cell structure better).

    In summary: yes, the retention of the non-seamless flag/layer break (at least any layer break) IS important when burning to a dual layer blank, and yes, other software does indeed leave it in place, or provide an option to leave it in place. CloneDVDs inflexible removal of the flag is not friendly for us dual layer burning folks, and makes us jump through extra hoops to put it back in. Perhaps leaving it alone could be the default if one is copying with the DVD9/DL profile and remove it if using the DVD5 profile?!

  5. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    That's not what I'm saying.

  6. fordman

    fordman Well-Known Member

    OK, I looked at your link. Yes, you are saying that it is impossible for any transcoding application (which remasters the DVD) to keep the original layer break position. What you are talking about is the PHYSICAL sector on the written DVD.

    What I'm talking about is the non-seamless FLAG that corresponds to the original layer break position in terms of the specific cell that it was associated with. Then, the other part of the equation is so use an application like ImgBurn that will allow me to select that for the burning function.

    So, you're talking physical position on the written disc as compared to the original disc. I'm talking about the position within the title, which may not be the same exact physical sector as the original, but it will be the same as the original in the logical sense. For instance if the original non-seamless flag was nicely placed at a scene change that occurred between chapters 14 and 15 of a title (PGCEdit or IFOEdit would show the flag on the cell corresponding to chapter 15), then I can leave that non-seamless flag set and choose it in ImgBurn, and my DVD player will change at the exact same spot (within the movie, not the DVD) as the original movie did! You're referring to physical location, while I'm referring to logical location.

    I chose a poor subject line. I should have titled it something like "Please add option to keep non-seamless flag that corresponded to the original DVD's physical layer break position," but that's rather wordy. Plus, I was merely using the language that CloneDVD uses in the log, i.e., "Layer Break Successfully Removed," or something similar.

    I have no desire to burn with CloneDVD because I understand it pales in comparison to an application like ImgBurn in aligning the logical layer break position to the true physical layer change on the burned DVD. CloneDVD is great for doing what it's best at - transcoding to reduce the size to single layer or to remove titles, and that's all I choose to use it for. However, in the process, I'd like to see it be able to keep the non-seamless flag like other applications like DVDShrink (under Preferences/Output Files) and the DVDFab products provide options for.

    So, my request stands, but should perhaps be reworded:

    Slysoft: please add an option to keep the non-seamless flag that corresponded to the layer break position on the original DVD! (but in CloneDVD language, my original subject was correct) :agree:

    Thanks, and sorry for any confusion,
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2007
  7. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Just to clarify . . . what I wrote about has nothing to do with compression.

    Anyway, if you're interested in making a suggestion concerning Clonedvd, you may wish to contact Elaborate Bytes, the official developer of Clonedvd (Slysoft is a reseller--and not the developer):
  8. fordman

    fordman Well-Known Member

    Thanks Webslinger,

    Yes, it was clear that you were simplying pointing out that all transcoding applications re-master, compression or not.

    Thanks for the link. I didn't realize that Slysoft wasn't providing support for CloneDVD or at least passing along suggestions. I'll contact Elaborate Bytes directly.

  9. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    They do support the programs they sell--and sometimes pass along suggestions. However, they do not read every thread in this forum, and they don't develop Clonedvd (so it's not as though they would be implementing the suggestions).
  10. Chapman Photography

    Chapman Photography Well-Known Member

    I don't normaly used duel layer disc because of the current price, but right if I start I should be able to just copy the disc with nero and they should come out like the original, right? or will Anydvd remove the break? Has any one found any TY DL disc?
  11. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    No. Use Verbatim +R DL (made in Singapore) only

    Recode will not retain the original layer break position.

    Clonecd will.

    Clonedvd won't.

    Anydvd does not remove the layer break position.
  12. DetroitBaseball

    DetroitBaseball Well-Known Member

    AnyDVD does not remove the break. A 1:1 sector copy will retain the original layer break. Verbatim DVD+R DL DVDs made in the Singapore are the best.
  13. Chapman Photography

    Chapman Photography Well-Known Member

    Couldn't I just use the "Copy DVD" in Nero, not recode.
  14. DetroitBaseball

    DetroitBaseball Well-Known Member

    I believe so. You don't need Recode if you are using DL media.
  15. fordman

    fordman Well-Known Member

    As others have said, us Verbatim, made in Singapore. I recommend you use the ones that are marked with the 2.4X burning speed, but have a sticker or other frame with "up to 8x with compatible recorders," or something similar. Earlier versions of the same packages said up to 5X or up to 6X, corresponding to the fastest DL burning speed in effect at that time. Regardless these all have the same media code of MKM-001-00. Verbatim later came out with a later version (orange packaging) that is advertised at 8X or higher as designed burning rate, but the convential wisdom has been that you are wasting your money buying this version. I believe the media ID began with MKM-003...

    OfficeMax in the U.S. often has the MKM-001-00 ones in a 10 pack spindle for $14.99, and if you sign up for their specials they will send you coupons, usually $30 off of an order of $200, but I received one recently that was $25 off of $100. Unfortunately that was good only one particular night and I missed it. I also get free shipping on all orders where I live. So, if you couple a coupon with a good sale price, you should be able to get each at $1.30 or less + tax.

    Also, I admit that I don't use CloneCD to make 1:1 backups with AnyDVD, but it sounds like it would be a good option and CloneCD will make the layer break in the identical spot. However, if there are a lot of protections like error zone, bogus titlesets, etc., I've found that I'm better off using CloneDVD with AnyDVD active and back up in file mode, then burn that with ImgBurn. The advantage of CloneDVD in this case is that it will re-write the cell structure for the titles that had the copy protection structure in them, and it will clean it up so well that there are no artifacts of the protection left. I've found that while using AnyDVD and another application to make an ISO image directly from the DVD track will keep some traces from the protection in the structure, but I've never had them fail to play. If you bought a license for AnyDVD and CloneCD, maybe give that a try. Otherwise, recommend AnyDVD + ImgBurn's read mode to make a direct .ISO/.MDS image file, or with it's build mode if you rip to files.

    I highly recommend that you not use Nero. I purchased Nero 6 and Nero 7 and at least with Nero 6 (never installed 7), it would NOT honor the original layer break position. Before ImgBurn was developed to easily handle the layer break, I used Sonic RecordnowMax and even PGCEdit's ISO creation module, which relied on the MKISOFS freeware ISO image creation program. There began to be a few instances (like remnants of copy protection) that began to confuse MKISOFS, so I gave up on that and have been using ImgBurn exclusively for image creation and burning for over a year

    Good luck - it's a great world with dual layer burning - no compromise on quality!