Discussion Opinions Requested: Is 720p Resolution Good Enough?

[CraigR]

Hello, everyone! Being new to AnyStream I was hoping for some advice from the experienced pros here in the forum.

Here is my question:

[VIDEO RESOLUTION TO SELECT FOR DOWNLOAD AND STORAGE]

• Considering the storage requirements for 1080p H.264 or H.265 video (especially TV series with 13+ episodes per season and multiple seasons), will 720p resolution provide a quality picture on a 65" or larger Micro LED or OLED 4K UHD TV?
• Let's just assume that the 4K TV in question would be an affordable model from TCL, Hisense, or VIzio as opposed to a premium set from LG or Sony.
• To be clear, I understand that the crispness and color detail of a 1080p video will not be perfectly replicated with 720p video, especially depending on the upscaling engine used in "budget" or "entry model" TV sets. I just know how soft 480p video from my DVD rips look on my current 1080p TVs and I don't want to end up with the same situation when I upgrade to a 4K TV and try to play 720p videos.

[AUDIO QUALITY TO SELECT FOR DOWNLOAD AND STORAGE]

• I have noticed that most of the AnyStream supported streaming services support Dolby Digital Plus 6-Channel audio as well as high-quality stereo tracks.
• Unless I am doing something wrong, I am only able to only select one audio track to download even though the MP4 container can contain multiple audio tracks.
• Obviously, I would love to always select the highest quality audio track, but my concern is playback compatibility on devices that may not support E-AC3 (DD+) audio.
• Yes, I know Plex (installed on my Synology NAS) can transcode the videos on the fly to compatible video and audio codecs for the target device, but I prefer to direct stream my media for the best playback experience. I am also concerned with being able to drop the files on the kid's tablets or phones to keep them happy on the road.
• Would a high-quality stereo track be preferable over a surround track to ensure optimum playback compatibility while not sacrificing too much as regards audio quality?

Thank you in advance to anyone that takes their valuable time to reply. I really do appreciate your advice!

 

[redaws00]

I try to get 1080p for display on my 4K TV and use Plex for all devices (Except for directly on tablets).

I have had issues with audio not playing on tablets, but I always just snag a new copy in 720p with a lower bitrate stereo for those devices. It helps to keep tablet file sizes down as well.

 

[DeepSpace]

Considering the storage requirements for 1080p H.264 or H.265 video

The AS downloads are 264. You could convert them to 265 if you want to save space, but I never do that. I just put it on the harddrive as is. If you wondering about storage, I always buy 5TB drives for about 100€. 5TB are the biggest for 2,5 inch you can get. Why 2,5 inch instead of just one 18TB 3,5? Because they are too heavy for my usage (with the lack of any word to describe it better) and I don't want to fiddle around with 10+ power supplys. Currently I could connect all of them to my PC and Hub if I wanted to, just by using one simple USB cable for every single one.

will 720p resolution provide a quality picture

That depends on how good your eyes are and if you are sitting in front of it or 10 meters away. Also if you like the upscaling features of some models or not. I cannot speak here at all, as I watch everything on my 1080p PC monitor I'm sitting directly in front of. That's why I can see the difference between the qualities. I think I might not notice it on a TV, sitting some meters away and depending on the content.

multiple audio tracks

Do you use the newest version? And did you check if all of the videos that you checked have more than one audio track? If the season has only english audio, you of course can only download this one track.

Obviously, I would love to always select the highest quality audio track, but my concern is playback compatibility on devices that may not support E-AC3 (DD+) audio.

Exactly that was one thing I was going to write. Since I play everything on PC, I have no issues at all. But if you are going to put it on a drive or USB and then play it on your TV, then you might get troubles or no sound. I could not understand why the new 4k TV and 4k BD Player of my dad could not play it. They are able to handle 4k, so they should be able to do that as well.
You can then convert it to another format, but that can become really annoying if you want to watch an entire series with 7*26 episodes for example.

Yes, I know Plex

I cannot speak for that as I've never used it. But I've seen others talking about it and Kodi and they seem to be happy.

I am also concerned with being able to drop the files on the kid's tablets or phones to keep them happy on the road.

That shouldn't be any problem at all if you can install player apps like VLC on it. But the storage might become a problem. There are USB adapters and sticks you can use with your phone, but I had mixed experiences with that. Since the phones are stupid, you have to convert them. Then I could not attach it to another phone with Android on it as well. It asked to convert it again, but then all the data would be lost. No idea who made this crap.
But if you can buy a 128GB usb with USB C or lightning for iPhone and you only use it on that one mobile device (and the PC to transfer the data of course), I think you will be fine.

Would a high-quality stereo track be preferable over a surround track

Since you want to put it on the phone and might get problems on your TV if it can't handle the format for whatever reason, I think yes.
But if you also have a high quality sound system that you want to use with your TV, then no. You can download it twice as I do:
First, download 1080p and 5.1 or whatever the highest is, for archive and watching purposes. Then, download 720p and stereo if you want to put it on the phone for your kids. You can also remux files afterwards to avoid a re-download if you want to mix 1080p with stereo for example.
But in my experience, 720p would be sufficient for a phone. Since you are talking about a tablet, it depens on it's resolution and the size. My phone has a high-dpi display, but is small like every other phone, so I would never bother to put 1080p on it.

 

[Sodium Hypobromite]

You must mean miniLED (LCD with thousands of LED backlight zones) because mass production of microLED (the successor to OLED, replacing organic with inorganic emissive pixels) televisions has only just begun, and there are none available in sizes as small as 65".

1080p is double 720p and I notice the difference even on my laptop, and I always go for the best quality available. 720p will look significantly better than 480p and many 4K TVs have realtime upscaling, and you can get better upscaling with software such as Topaz Video Enhance AI. Native 1080p looks best, though, and you can store a lot of 1080p content on a single 16TB or 18TB drive.

 

[RedFox 1]

1080p is double 720p a

4X 720p is 1440p = 2560 x 1440p QHD 1440p is also referred to as quad high definition (QHD) because it is 4x times larger in total pixels than 720p, which is HD

 

[Jimc115]

4X 720p is 1440p = 2560 x 1440p QHD 1440p is also referred to as quad high definition (QHD) because it is 4x times larger in total pixels than 720p, which is HD

Good catch on the size...A lot of people assume 4K is 4 times better than 1080p...it's not. It's just approx. 4,000 pixels wide. 1080p would be about 2K or 1920 pixels wide.

 

[RedFox 1]

The question " Is 720p good enough" is a personal one. If you have never seen 4K, sure it's good enough, my goodness we watched 480p DVDs for years. Then came Blu-ray 1080p. So if you just want to enjoy the content on your Ipad or 30" TV sure 720p HD is more than adequate. But if you have a 65" QHD OLED TV, no 720p is not good.

 

[RedFox 1]

1080p would be about 2K or 1920 pixels wide.

= Bluray

 

[CraigR]

4X 720p is 1440p = 2560 x 1440p QHD 1440p is also referred to as quad high definition (QHD) because it is 4x times larger in total pixels than 720p, which is HD

Wow! Thank you to RedFox 1, Sodium Hypobromite, DeepSpace, and everyone else that posted their opinions! I will heed your recommendations and stick with 1080p resolutions with the best quality audio track available for my "Master" copies. I can then use the custom VidCoder (Handbrake) transcoding profiles I have refined over the past decade to transcode the files down to 720p with Dolby Pro Logic II stereo audio for playback compatibility on everyone's devices.

This is basically the same process I have used with my DVD and Blu-Ray disc library by using MakeMKV to rip my discs to an MKV and then transcoding the MKVs out to a 1080p MP4 with AAC 7.1/5.1 audio and external subtitles along with a 720p MP4 file encoded with DPLII stereo audio and burned in subtitles. I like DPLII because it plays back on devices that only recognize stereo tracks but can decode to simulated surround on compatible devices.

Again, thank you to everyone that took their time to reply. YOU GUYS ROCK!

 

[RedFox 1]

Wow! Thank you to RedFox 1, Sodium Hypobromite, DeepSpace, and everyone else that posted their opinions! I will heed your recommendations and stick with 1080p resolutions with the best quality audio track available for my "Master" copies. I can then use the custom VidCoder (Handbrake) transcoding profiles I have refined over the past decade to transcode the files down to 720p with Dolby Pro Logic II stereo audio for playback compatibility on everyone's devices.

This is basically the same process I have used with my DVD and Blu-Ray disc library by using MakeMKV to rip my discs to an MKV and then transcoding the MKVs out to a 1080p MP4 with AAC 7.1/5.1 audio and external subtitles along with a 720p MP4 file encoded with DPLII stereo audio and burned in subtitles. I like DPLII because it plays back on devices that only recognize stereo tracks but can decode to simulated surround on compatible devices.

Again, thank you to everyone that took their time to reply. YOU GUYS ROCK!

You are welcome.

 

[Water Faucet]

One other thing I would add. The bitrate and digital transfer can play a big part in quality. I have seen some really shitty 1080p transfers of older films. So, getting a 1080p file without a sample or preview of it does not guarantee you are getting the best version. I have seen many a 720p file actually look better than a poor 1080p file. It is less likely an issue for most newer shows and films.

 

[MuttJunior]

It's really a personal choice. Try it and see if it's good enough for you.

For me and my TV, 720 is just fine and is what I download everything at. The picture is clear on my TV, so I have no complaints. Sure, I can't count all the blackheads on an actor's nose, but then again, I really don't care how many blackheads he has.

 

[bjjones]

Not sure this is an "answer" as much as it's just my thought process. I do all movies in 1080p if available, TV series I take into account when it's from (and how many) and the content itself. I've got lots of multi-season cooking or BBQ shows that are from 7+ years ago that look just fine in 720p, and shows even older like some of the Anthony Bourdain stuff from 15/20 years ago before televised HD content was widespread to me looks just virtually the same in 1080p and 720p probably due to the original sources, and when there's say 8 or more seasons the space savings really add up. My main target is from an Emby server on my NAS to my older Sony XBR 4K 75", on my iPad I can tell no difference at all. YMMV but that's my process

 

[DrXenos]

Obviously, I would love to always select the highest quality audio track, but my concern is playback compatibility on devices that may not support E-AC3 (DD+) audio.

This is what I do (if you care). For compatibility, I add an AAC stereo track to everything (except stuff that already has one). To make this simple, I keep a script on my desktop explicitly for this purpose. I just drag-n-drop folders and/or files to it, and it will automatically create and add the AAC track to all the files.

 

[DQ]

In short, there are no right answers to this. There is only what is right for you.

This is what I personally do.

I stick with the best audio even if 6 channel, my plex install will transcode to something else if i need it which is light on resources.

As it pertains to video if it is a movie I stick with 1080. If it is a series it depends. If it is older I will go 720 because you generally don't get much more from something filmed before say the 2000's. If it is one of my favorites I will go 1080 but otherwise I will stick with 720 to save space.

 

[GreatInca]

I mostly hoard in 480p or whatever is between 1 and 2 megabits (which is generally 720p for Netflix because they use more quality-degrading compression particularly at below 1080p). Movies and shows I like more I prefer 1080p 5-10 megabits. My absolute favorites I would be willing to hoard in 4K

For 4K though, other than ripping 4K blu-rays via certain BIOS-downgraded 4K blue ray BDXL drives, 4K hoarding is not feasible.

Audio quality, I aim at audio bitrate being at 7.5 to 15% of the video bitrate, preferably around 10%.

 

[gdc333]

At the moment my only provider is Netflix. They do some of the worst compression in the industry. So I always take the 1080p.

Now Disney only supplies 720p, but their compression isn't so destructive and it can look as good as Netflix 1080p.

 

[Sodium Hypobromite]

Good catch on the size...A lot of people assume 4K is 4 times better than 1080p...it's not. It's just approx. 4,000 pixels wide. 1080p would be about 2K or 1920 pixels wide.

3840x2160, which is the resolution of 4K in a 16:9 aspect ratio, is exactly quadruple 1920x1080, which itself is 2.25x 1280x720, so 2160p "4K" is indeed four times better than 1080p (and 9x 720p) by pixel count. Likewise, 7680x4320 "8K" is quadruple 4K, 16x 1080p, and 36x times 720p.

 

[Sodium Hypobromite]

Disney only supplies 720p, but their compression isn't so destructive and it can look as good as Netflix 1080p.

Disney has much 1080p and a little 4K content through TV apps; their 720p limit is only for browsers. This is why I hope that in the years to come, AnyStream will evolve to emulate TV apps instead of just a browser.

 

[zanetti]

my 2 cents. 720p looked noice on my old 43'' TV. now on a 65'' 4K TV... it is ok if you are sitting 10ft away, but every time i get up to grab a drink and glance over the TV as i'm passing by... 720p looks really bad. and if the show was spotty in dark scenes to begin with ('rescue me' from AP, for instance) and had intermittent issues with bitrate (same show... and its noticable even on bluray rips 4x the bitrate), from closer than 10ft it looks even worse.

that being said, nowadays even 1080p looks crap in dark, lowlight scenes. try grabbing 1899 from NF. sure, 1080p but wait for a darker scene, or a scene with brown/dark orange colors. the banding is just... i have no words for it. it is so bad, that i am seriously reconsidering ditching NF, and even maybe grabbing stuff from streaming providers altogether except for something special (like remastered 1981 dynasty). the providers as they grow it seems are trying to save bandwidth and are doing something weird with how they encode files. in my 25 years of hoarding, and the last 10 as blurays and rips became a standard have never, ever had issues with banding, except if the bitrate was too low or it was an obviously crap encode. and those were very rare. now? i dont know what happened, but now 1080ps are around 2.5-3.5gb per episode, while 720p is less than a gig and im pretty sure i remember this wasnt the case a year ago. same thing is with... khm... linux distro scene releases, you know... manjaro webdls... and... (cough)... latest ubuntu webrips. and ALL have banding issues. some more, some less. larger the file, higher the bitrate, less banding. figures.

as things stand, id take a 2gb 720p bluray rip episode any day over a 1080p 2gb episode from NF. lol, and you can consider yourself lucky if you get a 2gb 1080p episode from NF. last episode of 1899 i grabbed the other day? less than 600mb. i mean, come on. i ended up sourcing the entire series elsewhere, and despite those having different filesizes (around 30% bigger) even those had banding issues. since then ive suspected that something is wrong with my setup aka win10/potplayer/ffdshow/lav and even kodi is displaying serious banding issues. but then i drop a 10 year old 720p bluray rip and voila, not an issue in sight. same setup, same player, same video renderer, same color settings...

so, to conclude my ranty TED talk. it is a gamble. you now have 500 tokens, experiment. go for s01e01 in 1080p, then 720p and observe then decide. that all being said, NF is the bottom of the barrel, im seriously thinking of never ever opening NF tab again. AP is better, but even there things are a changing, P+ is also meh, but HMAX is the best by far. HEVC from HMAX is good. really good, and compared to NF is interstellar. as for 480p content... 1080p TV might be better for it and on 4k its just a mess, but some series do look acceptable but only if they were remastered. otherwise you just have to accept it will look bad, especially when camera pans out (closeups will look acceptable). short of spending 9 hours for a 22min episode in topazAI, 480p is bloody murder nowadays.

addendum: im still downloading and hoarding stuff from streaming providers, despite of it all. lol. only in extreme cases, like 1899, i will try sourcing stuff elsewhere. also, those 2.5-3.5gb 1080p episodes i mentioned? a few minutes of reencoding to HEVC with at least 30% smaller filesizes. i suggest you try doing the same. but then again, that is sometimes also a gamble. some series and movies look great, some look crap. some settings work in one series, but dont in another etc. so, all in all... experiment. and join me in prayer that streaming providers do not screw things up even more.