Note: Backing up DVD to an image file is not recommended...

[testiles]

theosch, very complete explanation!

This is the thing I'm glad you (and Ch3vron) confirmed --->

... The AnyDVD-Rip-To-Image from original-DVD-ROM which of course still includes those bogus titel sets, just mount it in virtual drive, and you can still remove those bogus title sets afterwards with CloneDVD2 or AnyDVD-Rip-to-HDD later: Tested that out no issues

It means, for those DVD iso's that I created using AnyDVD Rip-to-Image before I knew all this, there is no need to go back and re-do them all from the source disc -- since I primarily watch the .iso's on the computer anyway.

And if I do need to burn one, I can still use CloneDVD to remove structural protection first from the .iso, then burn the result.


That's a good thing too because in the early days I was so "pro-computer file"/"anti-disc" that I discarded the disc collection I had up to that point after ripping it!

I now know that was a bad move -- for a lot or reasons (another being that Hard Drives don't last forever. I had several die with my only copy of many irreplaceable titles. ).


At least I still have the option of creating new, structure protection-free discs from the .iso's I still have.


Thanks for clearing that up, dude!



T

 

[theosch]

Thanks for replying, Theo.I understand. So you do what I have been doing, which is to use AnyDVD to make ISOs of DVDs.I assume that means the ISO is larger than it needs to be due to the redundant files ...they are empty (bogus) VOBs, are they not? I don't care about that because, looking at the big picture, those empty VOBs make little real difference -- I would guess it to be less than 1%.I don't care about an extra 20-60 seconds. I do care about making ISOs that are the most faithful to the original disc as possible, minus the protection and region coding.I don't know what you mean by "copy the content over". I'm making ISOs. I'm not copying the content over anything.I agree. So far, I've not had any playback issues that I know of.Well, the movie studios and the telecine labs do a lot of stupid things ...like ignoring Nyquist sampling requirements when converting analog (film) to digital.Yes, thank you, I understand that if I want to transcode, I need files on a hard disk, not an ISO.You know, some people transcode. I understand that. I do not transcode because transcoding injects an extra level of possible breakage, and because really big hard disks are cheap.

Yes. Especially HDD drives in external USB case. Take a look at WD My easy store 8TB drives or WD My Essential 8TB or WD My Book 8TB.
It includes a WD80E(Z)AZ/WD80E(M)AZ SATA drive internally. 8TB for 150€ at MediaMarkt for a in fact HGST Ultrastar HD HE8 enterprise drive (CMR), (not SMR), cannot complain at all. 3 years warranty, 2nd and other casing without damaging the plastic tabs inside, no sig issue, (just for warranty claims)
Let's hope that the Helium doesn't diffuse too fast through material, all bigger drives even Seagate, and with Heat assisted CMR from 10-14TB up using Helium.
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The 2nd 3rd WD80EZAZ drives with even same firmware etc and SN interestingly have a SATA-Power-Pin3-Disable feature. Had to cover the SATA-Power-pin-Nr. 3 with insultion tape (longer one), (3rd Pin, counting from the L-Angle side, or using SATA-15pin-Molex-4Pin-adapter
The 1st WD80EZAZ with same firmware version doesn't need that, very odd. Even using same computer+PSU. It seems so firmware not 100% identical, who cares with trick it's HDD is spinning up, great helpers from youtube.

Thanks so much, Theo.
Copying files using Windows Explorer? Hmmm... Would anyone really do that? No matter... I make an ISO image via AnyDVD's 'Rip to image...' function. That image is ALMOST identical to the original disc (just small changes). It's good to know that, if I want to burn a DVD-R, I can always mount the ISO in Virtual CloneDrive, then run CloneDVD, select the virtual drive, and I'm good to go.

By the way, I don't use Windows Explorer. I use TotalCommander. I have seen bogus title sets via VLC, but apparently TotalCommander isn't fooled by them. The next time I encounter bogus title sets, I'll have to look at them via Windows Explorer to see the difference.

Thank you for all your great help. ...May you live for 1000 years!

Well I was so stupid the first years to use AnyDVD+WinExplorer. Well it was not too bad, because I never had encountered a DVD-ROM with structural copy protection, so AnyDVD+Rip-to-Image and Windows-Explorer had nearly same result (well didn't notice any difference), until this DVD, and didn't know of that there are media descriptor files mds/.dvd using ImgBurn or CloneDVD which helps burning 1:1 without the need of refinding a good layer-split position, so WinExplorer+AnyDVD at least for playback, (especially burning) had worked so far with this method:
And all bit newer DVD-drives so far played 50%/50% split positions, so didn't know that

 

[theosch]

Well yes. Ch3vr0n gave me the tip to use AnyDVD-Rip-to-HDD or AnyDVD+CloneDVD2, otherwise I never had found out
. One reason I didn't want to use CloneDVD to copy DVD-ROM, because when CloneDVD2 or AnyDVD-Rip-To-HDD "remasters" the original to folder structure and hen rebuilding that to image, I had issues, when I mount such image, AnyDVD on some such titles with structural copy protection suddenly reported "NTSC" instead of PAL.
https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/any...-after-iso-creation-from-files-folders.71101/

James said this was just a cosmetical issue, and it would be hard to fix that for all affected titles one by one.

This is just cosmetic, and you can ignore it.
What probably happens: AnyDVD removes fake title sets (which are never played) with dummies. Next time, it might use the dummies to check for PAL/NTSC. It isn't so trivial to fix as it sounds, unless I make AnyDVD aware of its own dummies. Ugly.
Just ignore it. These dummies aren't played anyway.

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By the way, I don't use Windows Explorer. I use TotalCommander. I have seen bogus title sets via VLC, but apparently TotalCommander isn't fooled by them. The next time I encounter bogus title sets, I'll have to look at them via Windows Explorer to see the difference.

Interesting
Though of using TotalCommander, good to know if viewing DVD content with TT

Yes sometimes when a program crashes, it will crash whole Windows-Explorer including Desktop, and taskbars, maybe even programs etc killed. One reason why an old acquitance uses Total-commander. Afaik even in Win10 that's not fixed yet afaik because many Windows-displaying-things dependent from explorer.exe -process.
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{...}
I make an ISO image via AnyDVD's 'Rip to image...' function. That image is ALMOST identical to the original disc (just small changes). It's good to know that, if I want to burn a DVD-R, I can always mount the ISO in Virtual CloneDrive, then run CloneDVD, select the virtual drive, and I'm good to go.
{...}

Yes that really great. But so far, had even burnt Any-DVD-Rip-To-Image-ISOs from DVDs with structural copy protection directly onto blanc media. So far no big-deal-issues with burning and playback (because ripped directly from DVD-ROM to image size is not bloated up) just bit longer playback delay as with such kind of original DVD-ROM, probably VLC studying which fake title-sets to ignore. Maybe when there are many bogus-title sets the playback-start-delay could be quite l longer than half a minute, maybe if it's from a DVD-ROMs with a few dozens of groups of duplicates-entries

 

[markfilipak]

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha... I think I once saw a DVD with over 200 bogus title sets. When it played in VLC and I opened the 'Titles' drop-down menu, it filled my UHD screen!

 

[theosch]

{...}
I now know that was a bad move -- for a lot or reasons (another being that Hard Drives don't last forever. I had several die with my only copy of many irreplaceable titles. ).


At least I still have the option of creating new, structure protection-free discs from the .iso's I still have.


Thanks for clearing that up, dude!



T

Yes more stupid issue with me with Win-Explorer. But not tragic
As most DVD-ROM don't have that thing, and even when they have and you had used Win-Explorer, you'll notice at once, wondering why folder suddenly is quite bigger than fitting on a DVD than normally, then at once try another rip method, forum mods are suggesting

Now that I don't have made an image /no image without .mds and/or also no .dvd. that I had ripped with Win-Explorer, at least ImgBurn still can create a new .dvd and/or .mds file when creating ISO from files/folders, suggesting which layer-slit positions are "very good" "good" or middle etc.

Here is an example, even if ripped to image with e.g. .mds describing the layer break, here is an image and mounted via .mds, parallel-track-path which also original disc had (AnyDVD status windows: "Layers 2: parallel"). I''d have to recreate to .mds, and/or also probably .dvd file with ImgBurn using OTP and telling layer split position, to be able to burn it to a DVD+R DL, because PTP DVD-ROMs don't have layer-break-position. Otherwise burning that image, using PTP .mds file (taken from original DVD-ROM) (or .dvd ?) only works with DVD(-)DL, and so far only seen DVD+R DL sold, but rarely DVD-R DL.
(PTP/OTP not to confuse with Inverse-stack- DVD-R-LTH (which uses low-to-high, =>toggled way for "0" and "1"on the recording layer)

--
Don't let confuse you with "Tintenherz_ImgBurn_Log_Errors_.PNG". It just shows that there were read errors, (circle-scratches on the DVD-ROM disc at last area around at 99.99%, last few sectors):

 

[testiles]

Yes more stupid issue with me with Win-Explorer. But not tragic
As most DVD-ROM don't have that thing, and even when they have and you had used Win-Explorer, you'll notice at once, wondering why folder suddenly is quite bigger than fitting on a DVD than normally, then at once try another rip method, forum mods are suggesting

Now that I don't have made an image /no image without .mds and/or also no .dvd. that I had ripped with Win-Explorer, at least ImgBurn still can create a new .dvd and/or .mds file when creating ISO from files/folders, suggesting which layer-slit positions are "very good" "good" or middle etc.

Here is an example, even if ripped to image with e.g. .mds describing the layer break, here is an image and mounted via .mds, parallel-track-path which also original disc had (AnyDVD status windows: "Layers 2: parallel"). I''d have to recreate to .mds, and/or also probably .dvd file with ImgBurn using OTP and telling layer split position, to be able to burn it to a DVD+R DL, because PTP DVD-ROMs don't have layer-break-position. Otherwise burning that image, using PTP .mds file (taken from original DVD-ROM) (or .dvd ?) only works with DVD(-)DL, and so far only seen DVD+R DL sold, but rarely DVD-R DL.
(PTP/OTP not to confuse with Inverse-stack- DVD-R-LTH (which uses low-to-high, =>toggled way for "0" and "1"on the recording layer)
View attachment 47240
--
Don't let confuse you with "Tintenherz_ImgBurn_Log_Errors_.PNG". It just shows that there were read errors, (circle-scratches on the DVD-ROM disc at last area around at 99.99%, last few sectors):
View attachment 47241

Sorry, I got a little bit lost here.

I think you're saying you need .mds or .dvd files to burn double-layer DVDs???

I've seen those mentioned somewhere (ImgBurn?) but never used them.


What do they do and when do you use them?



T

 

[theosch]

Sorry, I got a little bit lost here.

I think you're saying you need .mds or .dvd files to burn double-layer DVDs???

I've seen those mentioned somewhere (ImgBurn?) but never used them.


What do they do and when do you use them?



T

--
I've written much text, but even at day having problems sorting thoughts and writing short as posssible, I fear my text is just a huddle

I'll post a statement one by one, trying to sort better. And you can ask back if necessary.:

Basically those .mds and .dvd files are small files, metha-files, storing metha-data, about the disc-layout of the original DVD-ROM-Disc-

They are important if you want to have original-layer-break-information info from the original-DVD-ROM (two layer-DVD-ROMs) along with the ISO, when reading original DVD-ROM disc (OTP type disc), needed for when burning ISO-image to DVD+R DL disc,and the burnt media should have same/similar layout-properties like the original DVD-ROM disc, such as:
Opposite Track Path OTP:
(1st layer pressed from inside to outside, 2nd layer from outside to inside (2nd layer's start above 1st layer's end, 2nd layer's end above 1st layer's start)
Layer-Break-position (->DVD9-ROM disc, ->OTP-mode <="layers 2: opposite")
-
Parallel Track Path PTP
(1st layer pressed from inside to outside, BUT 2nd layer also from inside to outside (2nd layer's start above 1st layer's start start, 2nd layer's end above 1st layer's end)
--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD+R_DL#Dual-layer_recording

"There are two modes for dual-layer orientation, parallel track path (PTP) and opposite track path (OTP). In PTP mode, used for DVD-ROM, both layers start recording at the inside diameter (ID) with the lead-in and end at the outside diameter (OD) with the lead-out. Sectors are sequenced from the beginning of the first layer to the end of the first layer, then the beginning of the second layer to the end of the second layer. In OTP mode, the second layer is read from the outside of the disk.

For DVD-Video a variation of the technique is employed. DVD-Video is always recorded in OTP mode, but the video data is read from the beginning of the first layer towards the end of the first layer, when this ends (not necessarily at the end of the track) then reading is transferred to the second layer, but the video data commences from the same physical location that the first layer ends back towards the beginning of the second layer. This means that the 'start' of the second layer may not have any recorded material present. This is in order to minimise the time that the video player takes to locate and focus on the second layer and thus provide the shortest possible pause in the content as the layer changes."
--
Wikipeda is correct about OTP technique and PTP technique, but one statement faik is wrong that DVD-ROMs only had OTP. I have seen Star Trek DS9 disc (European version) and 2nd season discs that have PTP, not OTP. First season discs are in OTP as most often used. "Tintenherz" is also pressed in PTP mode. Screenshots from those AnyDVD status windows showing "layers 2: parallel"

--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposite_Track_Path
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https://club.myce.com/t/parallel-track-path-dl-dvd-cant-be-cloned/203360
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(Reading out PTP discs no issue, but cloning PTP-DVD-ROM-disc to OTP-blanc-media (DVD+R DL) makes issues.
DVD-R DL use PTP, but afaik very rarely to obtain perhaps/no longer available, and afaik all/not all DVD burners can write PTP-blanc media.
---
So perhaps for PTP DVD-ROMs you have to create a new .mds file, afaik in ImgBurn I've seen an option when you can select OTP mode when recreating an .mds file for an an existing ISO file that was from a DVD-ROM with PTP, but afaik it need's to extract the ISO and rebuild the files/folders back to ISO modifying the IFO files into PTP and specifyinmg a layer break you want, which is suitable for fluent playback, this might help burning PTP disc over those detorus-steps of PTP source data onto OTP blanc media (DVD+R DL)
--
CloneDVD2 probably makes all that comfortable automatically.
@testiles
Did you have issues trying to burn PTP typed disc onto DVD+R DL once?
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Example DVD-ROM with PTP


Example DVD-ROM with OTP

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--
Example Mounting ISO-image directly via ISO, 50/50 split as OTP-fake, missing parallel information


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Example Mounting ISO-image indirectly via .mds file, from same disc, with parallel-layer information

--
ImgBurn settings to enable .dvd and .mds output along with ISO file, when reading out DVD-ROM: