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New sparse file AnyDVD feature

Roycal

Roycal

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7.1.5.4 2013 02 22
- New: Rip to image will create sparse files to reduce the size of
required disc space and faster image creation

The questions concerning the new feature of creating "sparse file" structure was off topic for the release of the latest beta thread, so I thought I would start a question thread.

My basic questions are, even though the AnyDVD image preserves or otherwise creates a sparse file structure, if you are using tools like BDClown or BDRebuilder, you will probably loose the sparse image file information? In other words, if you do any kind of manipulation (removing trailers, etc) the advantage of the sparse file image attributes will be lost?

Thanks in advance! And please, anyone, feel free to ask questions about this "sparse file" thing. :)
 
When you run it through BD Rebuilder or ClownBD the need for the sparse files is removed as the disc structure is rebuilt and those blank spaces are also removed.
From my understanding (which may be wrong) this will remove the wasted space found on some discs such as The X-Files, where if you rip to folder it comes out Gigabytes smaller than if you rip to Image
 
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Adbear said:
When you run it through BD Rebuilder or ClownBD the need for the sparse files is removed as the disc structure is rebuilt and those blank spaces are also removed.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that fast reply! But what do you mean "removed"? Is the space actually preserved or is the space re-filled with 0's? TIA :)
 
Why would you preserve the space when rebuilding the disc? for the most part it's just empty wasted space, so when using BD Rebulder or Clown BD there's nothing for it to work with as there's nothing actually there.
 
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I should have said "conserve" the space not preserve it.

I'm still a little confused though. BDRebuilder creates file folders on the hard drive when it re-encodes the video. James says that ripping to a folder will loose the sparse file information and the area will be filled with zeros.

So are you saying that once the image is ripped with AnyDVD's new sparse file feature, that the ripped image can be exploded to folders and the sparse image disk savings will be preserved?
 
If you extract the folders from the image the sparse information is lost, but as most of the sparse information is made from wasted space in the image itself this shouldn't make much difference. As my example earlier shows, the X-files movie is many GB's larger if you rip to image rather than rip to folder. With this new method I'm assuming the image will now come out closer to the folder rip size but without losing the disc structure. In this case the extra GB's is actually just empty space on the disc and not used by anything at all.

You might want to read through the 7.1.5.4 beta thread as that's what I did and that's where I got my understanding of how it works from (hopefully I understood it right)
 
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Ok, Thanks Adbear. This zero data thing looks like another trick of the publishers to cross the 25GB barrier by filling the disk with empty space.

I'm sure I will learn more in the near future as I work with the new AnyDVD isos. This new feature is much appreciated ;)
 
Roycal said:
Ok, Thanks Adbear. This zero data thing looks like another trick of the publishers to cross the 25GB barrier by filling the disk with empty space.
Click to expand...

No, definitely not.
It's just due to lazy (but legitimate) strategies used by the authoring software when creating the master ISO. Also technical requirements (stream files must begin on sector numbers divisible by 3, ...).
That software often generously rounds up addresses - maybe because a certain file length is not exactly known at the time - and so leaves empty spaces.
 
I had never heard of "sparse files" before this new feature--apart from "X-Files" does anyone e.g. Peer have a list of discs that have a lot of them/large ones? Just so I can take a look myself...
 
Folks with hardware media players:

If you find the time, you can test, if your player plays sparse image files without problems. I don't expect any, but it is good to know.

I have tested

Oppo BDP-93 (last iso formware)
PCH C-200 (Sigma chipset)
HiMedia 900B (Realtek chipset).

and haven't found a problem.

Folks with network storage devices can test, if sparse files are written over a SMB network (yes, AnyDVD will try it).
I tested it with Windows Home Server 2011 / Server 2008 R2, but some tests with Linux based boxes would be nice.
I don't expect any problems, but you never know....
 
Peer said:
No, definitely not.
It's just due to lazy (but legitimate) strategies used by the authoring software when creating the master ISO. Also technical requirements (stream files must begin on sector numbers divisible by 3, ...).
That software often generously rounds up addresses - maybe because a certain file length is not exactly known at the time - and so leaves empty spaces.
Click to expand...

I'm still confused. If it's required to have dead space to satisfy some technical requirements, then what is the advantage of creating sparse files?

- New: Rip to image will create sparse files to reduce the size of
required disc space and faster image creation

Is this an intermediate state for the image before it is burned to disk or played back with a software player?

Also, could this sparse file capability eventually lead to an ability to edit 3D blu ray? I.E. create a movie only or at least edit out trailers and still preserve the crosslinked files in the SSIF folder?

So far ClownBD and TSMuxer still cannot handle those files. TIA.
 
James said:
Folks with hardware media players:

If you find the time, you can test, if your player plays sparse image files without problems. I don't expect any, but it is good to know.

I have tested

Oppo BDP-93 (last iso firmware)
PCH C-200 (Sigma chipset)
HiMedia 900B (Realtek chipset).

and haven't found a problem.

Folks with network storage devices can test, if sparse files are written over a SMB network (yes, AnyDVD will try it).
I tested it with Windows Home Server 2011 / Server 2008 R2, but some tests with Linux based boxes would be nice.
I don't expect any problems, but you never know....
Click to expand...
Any particular Blu-ray or does it matter ? I just bought a Dune HD H1 Smart Series.
 
Jeff R 1 said:
Any particular Blu-ray or does it matter ? I just bought a Dune HD H1 Smart Series.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't matter. All discs I have tested had sparse areas.

You can verify this with Windows' fsutil tool from the command prompt:

Code: 
fsutil sparse queryrange <imagefilename>
 
James said:
Folks with network storage devices can test, if sparse files are written over a SMB network (yes, AnyDVD will try it).
I tested it with Windows Home Server 2011 / Server 2008 R2, but some tests with Linux based boxes would be nice.
Click to expand...
Sparse files definitely work between Windows and FreeBSD using SAMBA, and I am very sure Linux also. I haven't tested with AnyDVD in particular but will do when I have time.
 
James said:
Shouldn't matter. All discs I have tested had sparse areas.

You can verify this with Windows' fsutil tool from the command prompt:

Code: 
fsutil sparse queryrange <imagefilename>
Click to expand...
Seems to work just fine for Avatar and The Polar Express. I did Polar Express twice, both wit Speed Menu _ one to keep original menu and one with out.

The Dune played the basic play list as well full BD menu's with no problems.
I watched 15 minutes of both movies with no problems.

One odd thing is that Window's reported Avatar as being 46.6 GB on the hard drive and the Dune reported 50.6 GB _ don't know if that has anything to do with what we're discussing here.

James, what faults am I looking for here as far as functionality, every thing seems fine ?
 
Now checked works fine to FreeBSD using SAMBA as expected really

Jeff R 1 said:
One odd thing is that Window's reported Avatar as being 46.6 GB on the hard drive and the Dune reported 50.6 GB _ don't know if that has anything to do with what we're discussing here.
Click to expand...

Unlike compressed files sparse files report the "real" size without the omitted blocks, I think this is what you're asking.
 
I use .iso as my defacto back up, generally don't play them unless I have a problem with my extracted main title.

If I want to create a mkv file using makemkv or another format using Slyce when its out, then is a sparse file safe or should I stick with standard .iso?

Can I play a sparse file .iso using JRiver or TMT5/6?

What is the general rule of thumb space saving? (I guess all discs are different, but is it 10%-ish or more?)

Cheers
 
Great Feature, will use this alot! You should promote it more, especially the SparseChecker-tool. Thought I had to reripp all my Disks, but this tool is really fast (60 secs for a 50GB-ISO). Thanks!

@Z0001: It's more about 0.1%. I tried 10 Blu-Rays so far and gained about 10MB each. Not much, but for free... .
 
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DennisTheWeak said:
Great Feature, will use this alot! You should promote it more, especially the SparseChecker-tool. Thought I had to reripp all my Disks, but this tool is really fast (60 secs for a 50GB-ISO). Thanks!

@Z0001: It's more about 0.1%. I tried 10 Blu-Rays so far and gained about 10MB each. Not much, but for free... .
Click to expand...

James; how is this even possible, the best I can get is about an hour.

@DenisTheWeak
What are your specs, what Blu-ray reader can possibly read a 50 GB disc and create an ISO in 60 seconds ?
I know readers are set to read slower so they don't make so much noise and there are ways to make them read faster _ is this what you did ? But still 60 seconds !?
 
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