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Netflix Main

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Way get some objective argument in there! Like I said to OP, SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE! The argument that comes from both of you is higher b/w demand => higher quality, well, let's just stick with MPEG-2 then! In the absence of evidence, anything you say is but supposition posing as fact.

It's actually very simple: get the Big Buck Bunny, and encode that with the parameters that the two profile videos from NF expressly say they use, then feel free to judge visually or use VMAF.
Above I threw off a practical example which shows that the video with high is inferior to main
 
Example based on pokemon season 22 episode 54
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/8862

А как закодирован Main, где настройки программы? По виду это не Main от NF, т.к. во первых они всегда вставляют параметры кодировки в поток H264, даже продолжительность эпизода на совпадает---почему бы два типа кодировки с одного мастера имели разную продолжительность (и да, NF кодируют с одного мастера параллельно)?! Скорее это Main загружен из котлована Scene и перекодированный ими (и я не знаю как)... Единственная разница это цвета а не целостность информации, но я не вижу цветовых параметров в прекреплённых деталях.

How is the Main coded, where are the coding parameters? By the looks of it, it is not a Main from NF, as, first of all, NF always keep coding parameters in the H264 stream, but even then, the title lengths are wildly different---why would two codings from the same master have different lengths (and yes, NF do code from one master in parallel)?! Most likely, it's a Main that's pulled from Scene's stash and recoded by them (I have no idea how Scene get their stuff, for all I know, they re-encode from virtual display that is video processed to correct tone mapping). The only difference between the two shots seems to be colour saturation (wrong tone mapping (rec 709 vs rgb), you've not attached colour info.) not dilution of entropy.
 
Look again message, initially I took the already clipped file, now there are settings for the same source code... The video is overexposed if you didn't notice, and pay attention to the smaller details especially on the 2nd pair
 
Look again message, initially I took the already clipped file, now there are settings for the same source code... The video is overexposed if you didn't notice, and pay attention to the smaller details especially on the 2nd pair

over-exposed = wrong tone mapping, which is what I said. Like I said, because of the episode length difference, chances are that the Main video is actually re-encoded by scene with tone-mapping corrected for RGB prior to coding; NF wouldn't encode the same master to different presentation lengths.
 
Man seriously go to the forest... Don't like main profile, don't use it, but don't force it on others what to use
 
I just asked initially, the possibility of a basic choice in the settings, and why the authors do not use this profile
========================
I don't throw links on file here... But there is no flix grab (Shit tools) type video capture, only web-dl,
this video was not re-encoded
 
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Man seriously go to the forest... Don't like main profile, don't use it, but don't force it on others what to use

Jebus, you can't even guarantee that the Main you're comparing to is actually from NF, and when you're confronted by irregularities in your "evidence", you start with ad hominem attacks.

And I asked why you think it's better, your argument is effectively "because I like what Scene gives me." How could anyone argue with that?!
 
If you don't like the previous example, take a trailer with the same main profile, none DRM protection

Code:
https://yadi.sk/d/ygNux31hmG2dlA

Code:
Видео
Идентификатор                            : 2
Формат                                   : AVC
Формат/Информация                        : Advanced Video Codec
Профиль формата                          : Main@L4
Настройки формата                        : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Параметр CABAC формата                   : Да
Параметр RefFrames формата               : 3 кадра
Идентификатор кодека                     : avc1
Идентификатор кодека/Информация          : Advanced Video Coding
Продолжительность                        : 1 м. 3 с.
Вид битрейта                             : Переменный
Битрейт                                  : 4 420 Кбит/сек
Максимальный битрейт                     : 6 630 Кбит/сек
Ширина                                   : 1 920 пикселей
Высота                                   : 1 080 пикселей
Соотношение сторон                       : 16:9
Режим частоты кадров                     : Постоянный
Частота кадров                           : 23,976 (24000/1001) кадра/сек
Цветовое пространство                    : YUV
Субдискретизация насыщенности            : 4:2:0
Битовая глубина                          : 8 бит
Тип развёртки                            : Прогрессивная
Бит/(Пиксели*Кадры)                      : 0.089
Размер потока                            : 33,3 Мбайт (100%)
Библиотека кодирования                   : x264 core 148 r2715 7e75228
Настройки программы                      : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=24 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=8 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / stitchable=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=2 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=0 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=48 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=4420 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.50 / qpmin=6 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=6630 / vbv_bufsize=8840 / nal_hrd=vbr / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Дата кодирования                         : UTC 2019-05-26 12:40:01
Дата пометки                             : UTC 2019-05-26 12:40:01
Codec configuration box                  : avcC
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Don't you think it's strange that in trailers the browser gets the main profile first and not the high one
 
Don't you think it's strange that in trailers the browser gets the main profile first and not the high one


Lowest common denominator, isn't that obvious; the same reason why various Linux distros compile their ... distros for the lowest common processor (you can make your distro run better, but you lose backward compatibility)? So if you honestly want the answer to your question look up the bare minimum NF say is required to play their service, et voila!

You've still not said what is wrong with High other than you lack of understanding of colour spaces and tone mapping though (something that ought to have been blatantly obvious from comparing the two screenshots you've posted if you have as much video "experience" as you say)... The short of it is: people see Main that is larger and automatically think it's better; it is not, it's that simple---NF have masters and they are capable of comparing the encodes, saying the opposite is just as saying the Sun rotates around the Earth. You explain something to me: why on Earth would NF spend more computational capacity (read: money) on something that produces worse quality that people won't watch? They won't!


Edit: Incidentally, the first trailer I found on NF was for "Trailer Park Boys" (S12); that was Main@3.1 and only @720p, by your logic and argument that must be "better"?

Edit 2: Again, the difference in tone mapping that you're seeing is most likely due to "Scene" releases being re-encoded "recordings" of streaming that is colour-corrected for RGB colour space prior to re-encoding, where as with AS you're getting the "raw deal" (pun intended).
 
Last edited:
I understand Your position of "great video guru", consider as you want Your right... I am waiting for a response from the tool team, it is useless to argue with You
 
I understand Your position of "great video guru", consider as you want Your right... I am waiting for a response from the tool team, it is useless to argue with You

I don't want anyone to agree with me, actually I'd rather they didn't---how would I learn anything? I asked you to clearly explain why you thought Main was better; heck, maybe I'm missing out on something myself?! The only two answers your gave is "look at the Scene file sizes" and an incorrectly tone-mapped screenshot, that's it.
 
Now I will prepare 4 examples of one series 1. Netflix VBR High 2. Netflix VBR Main 3. Pokemon TV web-dl CBR main 4. Blu Ray VBR High, it will be clearly seen that the bitrate matters more than you think
 
Now I will prepare 4 examples of one series 1. Netflix VBR High 2. Netflix VBR Main 3. Pokemon TV web-dl CBR main 4. Blu Ray VBR High, it will be clearly seen that the bitrate matters more than you think

And how do you propose to get NF Main, take from Scene?
 
NF Main was received while nap36 was still working

Code:
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/8881

NF High [1]
Code:
Видео
Идентификатор                            : 1
Формат                                   : AVC
Формат/Информация                        : Advanced Video Codec
Профиль формата                          : High@L4
Настройки формата                        : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Параметр CABAC формата                   : Да
Параметр RefFrames формата               : 4 кадра
Идентификатор кодека                     : avc1
Идентификатор кодека/Информация          : Advanced Video Coding
Продолжительность                        : 21 м. 58 с.
Вид битрейта                             : Переменный
Битрейт                                  : 1 372 Кбит/сек
Максимальный битрейт                     : 20,0 Мбит/сек
Ширина                                   : 1 920 пикселей
Высота                                   : 1 080 пикселей
Соотношение сторон                       : 16:9
Режим частоты кадров                     : Постоянный
Частота кадров                           : 23,976 (24000/1001) кадра/сек
Цветовое пространство                    : YUV
Субдискретизация насыщенности            : 4:2:0
Битовая глубина                          : 8 бит
Тип развёртки                            : Прогрессивная
Бит/(Пиксели*Кадры)                      : 0.028
Размер потока                            : 216 Мбайт (91%)
Библиотека кодирования                   : x264 core 148 r2715 7e75228
Настройки программы                      : cabac=1 / ref=4 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x111 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=120 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / stitchable=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=16 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=121 / scenecut=0 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=240 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.50 / qpmin=6 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=20000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=vbr / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:0.80
Дата кодирования                         : UTC 2020-12-10 18:00:53
Дата пометки                             : UTC 2020-12-10 18:00:53
Codec configuration box                  : avcC
NF Main [2]
Code:
Видео
Идентификатор                            : 1
Формат                                   : AVC
Формат/Информация                        : Advanced Video Codec
Профиль формата                          : Main@L4
Настройки формата                        : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Параметр CABAC формата                   : Да
Параметр RefFrames формата               : 3 кадра
Идентификатор кодека                     : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Продолжительность                        : 21 м. 58 с.
Вид битрейта                             : Переменный
Битрейт                                  : 3 010 Кбит/сек
Максимальный битрейт                     : 4 515 Кбит/сек
Ширина                                   : 1 920 пикселей
Высота                                   : 1 080 пикселей
Соотношение сторон                       : 16:9
Режим частоты кадров                     : Постоянный
Частота кадров                           : 23,976 (24000/1001) кадра/сек
Цветовое пространство                    : YUV
Субдискретизация насыщенности            : 4:2:0
Битовая глубина                          : 8 бит
Тип развёртки                            : Прогрессивная
Бит/(Пиксели*Кадры)                      : 0.061
Размер потока                            : 460 Мбайт (53%)
Библиотека кодирования                   : x264 core 148 r2715 7e75228
Настройки программы                      : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=24 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=8 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / stitchable=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=2 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=48 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=0 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=48 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=3010 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.50 / qpmin=6 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=4515 / vbv_bufsize=6020 / nal_hrd=vbr / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Default                                  : Да
Forced                                   : Нет
PokTV Main [3]
Code:
Видео
Идентификатор                            : 1
Формат                                   : AVC
Формат/Информация                        : Advanced Video Codec
Профиль формата                          : Main@L4.1
Настройки формата                        : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Параметр CABAC формата                   : Да
Параметр RefFrames формата               : 4 кадра
Идентификатор кодека                     : avc1
Идентификатор кодека/Информация          : Advanced Video Coding
Продолжительность                        : 21 м. 18 с.
Битрейт                                  : 7 097 Кбит/сек
Ширина                                   : 1 920 пикселей
Высота                                   : 1 080 пикселей
Соотношение сторон                       : 16:9
Режим частоты кадров                     : Постоянный
Частота кадров                           : 23,976 (24000/1001) кадра/сек
Цветовое пространство                    : YUV
Субдискретизация насыщенности            : 4:2:0
Битовая глубина                          : 8 бит
Тип развёртки                            : Прогрессивная
Бит/(Пиксели*Кадры)                      : 0.143
Размер потока                            : 1,06 Гбайт (97%)
Язык                                     : English
Дата кодирования                         : UTC 2019-01-14 18:02:35
Дата пометки                             : UTC 2019-01-14 18:02:35
Цветовой диапазон                        : Limited
Основные цвета                           : BT.709
Характеристики трансфера                 : BT.709
Коэффициенты матрицы                     : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC
BluRay High [4]
Code:
Видео
Идентификатор                            : 1
Формат                                   : AVC
Формат/Информация                        : Advanced Video Codec
Профиль формата                          : High@L4.1
Настройки формата                        : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Параметр CABAC формата                   : Да
Параметр RefFrames формата               : 4 кадра
Идентификатор кодека                     : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Продолжительность                        : 21 м. 17 с.
Вид битрейта                             : Переменный
Битрейт                                  : 27,8 Мбит/сек
Максимальный битрейт                     : 35,0 Мбит/сек
Ширина                                   : 1 920 пикселей
Высота                                   : 1 080 пикселей
Соотношение сторон                       : 16:9
Режим частоты кадров                     : Постоянный
Частота кадров                           : 23,976 (24000/1001) кадра/сек
Стандарт вещания                         : NTSC
Цветовое пространство                    : YUV
Субдискретизация насыщенности            : 4:2:0
Битовая глубина                          : 8 бит
Тип развёртки                            : Прогрессивная
Бит/(Пиксели*Кадры)                      : 0.559
Размер потока                            : 4,13 Гбайт (94%)
Язык                                     : English
Default                                  : Да
Forced                                   : Нет
Цветовой диапазон                        : Limited
Основные цвета                           : BT.709
Характеристики трансфера                 : BT.709
Коэффициенты матрицы                     : BT.709
 

Attachments

  • 01-Netflix-High.png
    01-Netflix-High.png
    1.7 MB · Views: 13
  • 02-Netflix-Main.png
    02-Netflix-Main.png
    1.8 MB · Views: 15
  • 03-PokemonTV-Main.png
    03-PokemonTV-Main.png
    1.8 MB · Views: 9
  • 04-BluRay-High.png
    04-BluRay-High.png
    1.9 MB · Views: 8
Last edited:
Surprisingly the best looking version of Pokemon TV with CBR, Although if you look closely the blu ray is still more detailed
 
Last edited:
Surprisingly the best looking version of Pokemon TV with CBR

Well, BD and PokeTV are completely irrelevant for the comparison, but honestly, for a second I was going to agree with you until I realised I had them open in my browser tabs the other way around: high has more defined edges and smoother gradients whereas Main looked washed out, but only noticeable at 600x zoom. To be honest, I was expecting to be seeing at least discernible macroblocks or irregular edges or something that could float up with an 8x8 transform, but nope, none of that is visible in neither the low nor high frequencies of the shot. Perhaps you can give some examples of the defects of the High coded vs the Main coded; perhaps I'm being stupid, can you spell out what is better in Main than in High picture-wise?
 
Code:
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/8883

Code:
Видео
Идентификатор                            : 1
Формат                                   : AVC
Формат/Информация                        : Advanced Video Codec
Профиль формата                          : High@L4
Настройки формата                        : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Параметр CABAC формата                   : Да
Параметр RefFrames формата               : 4 кадра
Идентификатор кодека                     : avc1
Идентификатор кодека/Информация          : Advanced Video Coding
Продолжительность                        : 21 м. 58 с.
Вид битрейта                             : Переменный
Битрейт                                  : 1 897 Кбит/сек
Максимальный битрейт                     : 20,0 Мбит/сек
Ширина                                   : 1 920 пикселей
Высота                                   : 1 080 пикселей
Соотношение сторон                       : 16:9
Режим частоты кадров                     : Постоянный
Частота кадров                           : 23,976 (24000/1001) кадра/сек
Цветовое пространство                    : YUV
Субдискретизация насыщенности            : 4:2:0
Битовая глубина                          : 8 бит
Тип развёртки                            : Прогрессивная
Бит/(Пиксели*Кадры)                      : 0.038
Размер потока                            : 298 Мбайт (93%)
Библиотека кодирования                   : x264 core 148 r2721 6d200cf
Настройки программы                      : cabac=1 / ref=4 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x111 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=120 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=8 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / stitchable=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=16 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=121 / scenecut=0 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=240 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=21.0 / qcomp=0.50 / qpmin=6 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=20000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=vbr / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:0.80
Дата кодирования                         : UTC 2020-12-10 20:09:56
Дата пометки                             : UTC 2020-12-10 20:09:56
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Code:
Видео
Идентификатор                            : 1
Формат                                   : AVC
Формат/Информация                        : Advanced Video Codec
Профиль формата                          : Main@L4
Настройки формата                        : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Параметр CABAC формата                   : Да
Параметр RefFrames формата               : 3 кадра
Идентификатор кодека                     : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Продолжительность                        : 21 м. 58 с.
Вид битрейта                             : Переменный
Битрейт                                  : 7 500 Кбит/сек
Максимальный битрейт                     : 11,2 Мбит/сек
Ширина                                   : 1 920 пикселей
Высота                                   : 1 080 пикселей
Соотношение сторон                       : 16:9
Режим частоты кадров                     : Постоянный
Частота кадров                           : 23,976 (24000/1001) кадра/сек
Цветовое пространство                    : YUV
Субдискретизация насыщенности            : 4:2:0
Битовая глубина                          : 8 бит
Тип развёртки                            : Прогрессивная
Бит/(Пиксели*Кадры)                      : 0.151
Размер потока                            : 1,12 Гбайт (74%)
Библиотека кодирования                   : x264 core 148 r2715 7e75228
Настройки программы                      : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=24 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=8 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / stitchable=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=2 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=48 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=0 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=48 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=7500 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.50 / qpmin=6 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=11250 / vbv_bufsize=15000 / nal_hrd=vbr / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Default                                  : Да
Forced                                   : Нет
 

Attachments

  • 21ep09_high.png
    21ep09_high.png
    1.5 MB · Views: 22
  • 21ep09_main.png
    21ep09_main.png
    1.5 MB · Views: 21
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