Need definition for a few tags

[jcrick]

Insignia NS-DV4G

I also have an Insignia but it is a NS-DV4G. I am in no way experienced with video protocols, so I feel I am stabbing in the dark. I have been trying to get DVD Clone Mobile to create the video files and have had some moderate success. I can get the output files to play on the DV4G player.

While the file will play, the A/V sync is OK only until I try to fast forward or fast reverse. Once I take either of these actions the audio appears to be in the right spot and continues to play (from where I stop scanning) and the video remains frozen. But if I start the video from the beginning and don't fast forward/reverse, the video will continue to play to the end without any issues.

Here is the NS-DV4G Profile I created:

[NS-DV4G]
Manufacturer=Insignia
Res1=320x240
ResExpand1=320x240
ARate=44100
ABRate=192
vbrate=512
MaxVBitrate=1000
MVolume=10
mopts=-audio-preload 0.8 -delay 0.1 -lameopts br=%abrate%
lavcopts=vcodec=mpeg4
moac=mp3lame
Format=avi -noodml
Quality=23
useMencoder=1
SubTitle=1
; Added / modified the following for Insignia Player model NS-DV4G
VTag=XVID
FileType=avi
NTSCFrameRate1=29.97
NTSCFrameRateDeinterlace1=29.97

I created a user prfile in the software that came with my player (Media Converter 2, by ArcSoft). The following is the profile from the associated MC2 INI file:

(NOTE: This profile is only used by Media Converter 2 and is not 
intended to be added to the Clone DVD Mobile .INI file. It is only
provided to show what MC2 expects and uses for encoding values.)

[OPTIMIZE]
PhotoFormat=JPG
PhotoFileExtName=JPG
PhotoSaveMode=4
PhotoResolution=320x240
PhotoQuality=80
AudioFormat=MP3
AudioFileExtName=MP3
AudioSaveMode=1
AudioChannels=2
AudioBitrate=192
AudioSmplBitrate=44100
VideoFormat=MPEG4-AVI
VideoFileExtName=AVI
VideoSaveMode=256
VideoResolution=320x240
VideoVEncod=ArcSoft MPEG4 Encoder
VideoAEncod=ArcSoft MP3 Encoder
VideoASmplrate=44100
VideoABitrate=64
VideoVBitrate=512
VideoFPS=29.97
VideoSplitSize=
VideoRotateDegree=
[COMMON]
ValidDevice=User Defined

I can use the output file created from CloneDVD Mobile as the source file (input) for the Media Converter 2 and the resulting file (with .AVI extension) works flawlessly in the DV4G player. Therefore, there is some additional tweeking that the Media Converter 2 application is giving to the video that makes it work, but I just can't figure out what it is.


Here are my questions:

1. Can someone take a look at these two profiles and offer some help in resolving the audio/video sync problems?

2. Is there any documentation that will explain the various parameters and options for creating custom profiles? This would go a long way to helping me figure this out.

Cheers,
John

 

[jcrick]

Requesting documentation for profile tags and options

I have asked this elsewhere in these forums, but not gotten an answer. Is there any documentation that explains the various tags and their options for creating different device profiles?

 

[Webslinger]

Do not create multiple threads about the exact same thing please. click http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=87585&postcount=4 and read fully

If you don't get an answer here, then contact Slysoft: click http://www.slysoft.com/contact.html

 

[jcrick]

OK, I think I have made some progress in solving this issue. I created a new profile (posted below these remarks) which seems to allow the file to be copied to the NS-DV4G and maintain synchronization between the audio and video while scanning forward and backward. There are three issues for which I have no idea and definately need some suggestions (experts: don't be shy, you can jump in anytime now!):

1. When copying the file to the player I get the following message with my test files: "The file 'Test_B8_dv4g.avi' has one or more properties outside the device limits...blah, blah, blah". However when I copy the file it plays without any problem.

2. Scanning is smooth, but there is an occasional momentary 1-2 frame chop in the video. However, the audio seems to stay in sync with the video.

3. When scanning to the end of the video, both the video and the audio stop. However, when I scan to the beginning of the video, the video stops but the audio seems to "bounce" which sounds like someone thumping a tin can.

Any ideas on thes issues?

Anyone who has an Insignia player, please try this and provide some feedback please. I have only tested this with a 10 minute video but I will test further tonight with a full length movie. Here is the profile:

[NS-DV4G]
Manufacturer=Insignia
ScreenRatio=4:3
Res1=320x240
ResAna1=320x180
;lavcopts=vcodec=mpeg4:acodec=libmp3lame:vrc_maxrate=512
lavcopts=vcodec=mpeg4:acodec=libmp3lame:vrc_maxrate=512:vrc_buf_size=200
VTag=XVID
ARate=44100
ABRate=128
vbrate=512
MVolume=10
Format=lavf
lavfopts=format=avi
FileType=avi
Quality=40
useMencoder=1
SubTitle=1
MaxVBitrate=768
Framerate=29.97

 

[jcrick]

Can someone tell me what the following tags are used for (and what typical values are used)?

1. ResAna1=
2. ResExpand1=
3. moac
4. mopts
5. lavcopts
6. lavfopts

 

[AtTheAsylum]

moac - tells mencoder (the utility the CloneDVD Mobile use to create the encoded file) what audio codec you want to use.
Eg:

moac=faac

Tells mencoder to encode AAC audio.

movc - same as above except for video.
Eg:

moac=lavc

Tells mencoder to use the lavc encoder when encoding the video stream.

mopts - general mencoder options.
Eg:

mopts=-faacopts br=%abrate%:mpeg=4:object=2

Tells mencoder that when encoding AAC audio (ie: you also used moac=faac) use a certain bitrate etc.

lavcopts - pass options specific to the lavc codec (ie: you also used moac=lavc or movc=lavc)
Eg:

lavcopts=vcodec=mpeg4

Tells mencoder (using the lavc codec) that you want to encode MPEG4 (ie: DivX/XviD) video.

lavfopts - muxer options. A muxer is used to combine the audio and video streams into a container file.
Eg:

lavfopts=format=psp

Tells mencoder that when it muxes the audio and video tracks together it should create a container file that is PSP compatible.

ResAna1 - defines a resolution that CD-M will encode to for anamorphic (16:9) DVD's. This (and others, eg: ResAna2, 3 etc) populates the 'Resolution' drop down box in CD-M.

ResExpand1 - sorry, have no idea

Some of these tags/fields are interchangeable. Eg: I can add lavc options to the mopts field or the lavcopts field.

Either:

mopts=-lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4

Or:

lavcopts=vcodec=mpeg4

Yes, I know it's confusing

For more info on mencoder and it's MANY options try http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/man/en/mplayer.1.html

 

[jcrick]

Link for mencoder options

Thanks for the link, I have been asking for something like this for a while. Think it is very handy. I did notice what you mentioned as a little confusing about being able to interchange the tags. I'm just not sure how the parser works, but I guess some trial and error will work :bang:

 

[jcrick]

Profile for Insignia NS-DV4G updated 2/16/2008

OK, I have made a few tweaks to the profile from above after doing some testing with full length videos. My test video is Bourne Ultimatum (116 minutes).

The changes eliminate the jerky video after scanning forward/backward and the video freeze problem. The audio and video seem to stay in sync unless you scan over about 10-15 minutes of the movie then the voice begins to trail behind the video. Short scans seem to cause no problems with the audio/video sync.

I had to change the ResAna1 to 320X240 to eliminate problems encoding a movie from a 16:9 DVD. It was giving me a green bar at the bottom 1/3 of the video. I changed the Format=lavf to Format=avi and increased the buffer size which seemed to eliminate the jerky video after scanning. It also eliminated the error message when trying to copy the file to the player. Here is the newest profile:

[NS-DV4G]
Manufacturer=Insignia
ScreenRatio=4:3
Res1=320x240
ResAna1=320x240
VTag=XVID
ARate=44100
ABRate=128
vbrate=512
MVolume=10
Format=avi
lavfopts=format=avi
lavcopts=vcodec=mpeg4:acodec=libmp3lame:vrc_maxrate=512:vrc_buf_size=327
FileType=avi
Quality=40
useMencoder=1
SubTitle=1
MaxVBitrate=768
Framerate=29.97

I have three remaining questions (so far):

1. Can someone offer some ideas on the outstanding problem with the audio/video sync issue I mentioned above? I just need someone to explain how you lock these two data streams together. To summarize, if the movie plays all the way through to the end without interruption, there is no loss to the A/V sync. However if I scan several minutes (10+ minutes of video time) then is the A/V goes out of sync. I can pause the player, shut it off and back on then restart the movie. This will restore the sync.

2. I'm not exactly sure how to set the "vrc_buf_size=327" or if it is really necessary (I'm just looking for ways to resolve the sync issue). Is this a single buffer or a stack of buffers? When creating a file that fits on a mobile player, will it matter? There are three values, 327 for VCD, 917 for SVCD and 1835 for DVD. Where does this buffer exist; on the machine encoding the video or is set aside at runtime on the player?

3. There are some other parameters,'autosync' and 'framedrop'. Again, are these used only during the encoding process or do these parameters tell the player how to keep the A/V in sync?

 

[jcrick]

Two Possible Solutions

Well, I have found only two solutions to this problem of creating videos that will play on the Insignia NS-DV4G (and other similar Insignia models). Unfortunately neither of these solutions have anything to do with CloneDVDMobile. I suspect this is because there are some underling problems with MENCODER and/or how CloneDVDMobile implements their interface to it.

I was finally able to prove this problem with MENCODER to myself while testing the second solution (see below). The problem I specifically reference is the loss of A/V sync. This loss appears to be progressive, meaning the longer the video is scanned forward, the worse the audio is out of sync. I would prefer CloneDVDMobile because (if it worked correctly) it would offer a one step solution for ripping and re-encoding a video.

My recommendation to SlySoft is to abandon MENCODER and find a more reliable and bug free encoder engine to work with their product (or collaborate with the Mencoder Project to solve this issue). Furthermore, if Slysoft intends to remain a viable (and profitable) solution then they need to take the concerns of A/V sync issues mentioned in the numerous threads of this forum more seriously. Take for example this thread, it has been viewed 213 time and yet there has only been one append by someone other than myself. I see this hardly as a collaborative forum, but instead little more than a note pad to document my own progress with no help from the experts. OK, with that said, here are the solutions I have found:

SOLUTION 1:
I first backup my DVD using either AnyDVD or DVDShrink. Then I used a tool called JOINVOBFILES.EXE to join the main movie VOB files into a single VOB file. I then run this single VOB through the Media Converter 2 utility that comes with the player. This creates a single video that plays on my NS-DV4G. JOINVOBFILES.EXE only takes a few minutes, so this is really less time than other methods requiring multiple conversion processes.

NOTE:As an alternative, you can join the source VOB files in any manner as to provide two or more movie segments which makes it easier to restart a movie from to mid point without having to scan forward as much.

SOLUTION 2:
I prefer this solution because in my testing, the output file is somewhat smaller (about 50-60MB in my tests). Again I use JOINVOBFILES.EXE to create a single VOB. I then use SUPER to create my final video AVI file to play on the Insignia player. My settings are as follows:

1. Container = AVI
2. Select encoder = ffmpeg (DO NOT select MEncoder, it causes A/V sync issues)
3. Video Codec: MPEG4, 320x240, 512kbps, 29.97fps
4. Audio codec: mp3, Stereo, 128kbps, 44100Khz Audio Stream[default]

So there you have it. These work for me. It would be nice to hear some feedback from those who try these solutions as well as any other solutions people come across. Don't be shy. And finally, good luck to SlySoft in fixing their application.

 

[AtTheAsylum]

I'm half way to agreeing with you re: the use of mencoder. I'm starting to think that maybe ffmpeg might not be a better option. Both offer a command line environment so it shouldn't be to hard to convert CD-M. Perhaps an option might be to offer both?

On the AV sync issue. I found a reference in the mencoder documentation that mentions that AV sync issues may be encountered if encoding from stdin (this is the way that CD-M does things) http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/HTML/en/menc-feat-dvd-mpeg4.html - see the last sentence in section 14.1.9. The documentation recommends encoding the DVD directly.

Direct encoding may not be an option for CD-M however since it does fair bit of processing before encoding

 

[jcrick]

AtTheAsylum,

I apologize for not responding sooner, I just saw your append this afternoon. I read through the text of the attached link. Lots of stuff to consider...

I take it to mean that reading from "stdin" means reading from a DVD drive; is that correct? I have tried using CloneDVD Mobile to read from both DVD and my hard drive. The results were about the same. I have exparimented with different options but have not tried the -mc 0 option until today (as suggested in your documentation). The results were actually worse. I had sync issues from the beginning of the movie.

What is most perplexing to me is that the A/V sync is not an issue if I let the movie play completely through; beginning to end. I only lose sync when scanning. I'll admit I don't understand much about the different frame types (I-frames, B-frames) yet and what info they contain, but I suspect there is something there that causes the scanning problems. Anyone have any ideas on this?

Other than the solutions I mentioned in a previous append, the closest I got to making CloneDVD Mobile work was when using the following profile. Using this profile, I was able to scan about half of the movie before the desync issue became really noticable.

[NS-DV2G/DV4G]
Manufacturer=Insignia
ScreenRatio=4:3
Res1=320x240
ResAna1=320x240
ResAna2=320x180
VTag=XVID
ARate=44100
ABRate=64
vbrate=256
MVolume=15
VTag=XVID
Framerate=29.97
moac=mp3lame
Format=avi
FileType=avi
Quality=40
useMencoder=1
SubTitle=1
MaxVBitrate=300
lavfopts=format=avi
lavcopts=vcodec=mpeg4:acodec=libmp3lame:mbd=0:keyint=200
mopts=-audio-preload 0.8 -delay 0.1 -lameopts cbr:br=%abrate% -noskip -skiplimit 1 -vf harddup

Finally, I did try using mencoder with some command line parameters but didn't have any success with that either. Unfortunately, I can't find those command strings right now, I seem to have lost a few of my notes. If I find them I will attach if anyone expresses any interest.

 

[AtTheAsylum]

No worries about the delay

Reading from stdin doesn't mean reading directly from the DVD (the mencoder doco indicates that reading directly from the DVD is the best way to do it). It means that another process (eg: AnyDVD itself) reads from the DVD, does some processing (not mandatory) and then passes the data (DVD stream) directly to another process (eg: mencoder).

If you have time try the following mencoder options at the command line. They read the DVD directly. See if the sync problem still occurs.

mencoder.exe dvd:// -dvd-device d:\demodvd -ffourcc DIVX -af volume=10 -aspect 16:9 -of avi -noodml -oac mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3:br=256 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:threads=2:vpass=1 -vf scale=320:180,harddup -info name="TEST" -alang en -ofps 25 -o NUL -passlogfile divxpass.log
mencoder.exe dvd:// -dvd-device d:\demodvd -ffourcc DIVX -af volume=10 -aspect 16:9 -of avi -noodml -oac mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3:br=256 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vbitrate=1000:threads=2:vpass=2 -vf scale=320:180,harddup -info name="TEST" -alang en -ofps 25 -o test.avi -passlogfile divxpass.log

It's a 2 pass process that creates an AVI with DivX video and MP3 audio. First pass is relatively quick and dumps a logfile called 'divxpass.log'. Second pass is slower.

You will need to change the -dvd-device parameter so it points to your DVD drive. You'll probably also want to change the '-vf scale' parameter to something higher (eg: -vf scale=720:404) and the vbitrate paramater as well.

 

[jcrick]

I tried the mencoder command line as you suggested. The first pass did not work at all. I didn't really expect it to since the codec specified was DIVX. Even worst, the final file size was over 800MB which is almost 3- 1/2 times the file size when using either my profile with CD-M or Media Converter 2 (software application included with player).

I made the following changes:

;2- Changed VIDX->XVID, VBITRATE 1000->512, audio BR 128->64, removed THREADS=2:
mencoder.exe dvd:// -dvd-device e:\VIDEO_TS -ffourcc XVID -af volume=10 -aspect 16:9 -of avi -noodml -oac mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3:br=64 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=1 -vf scale=320:180,harddup -info name="TEST" -alang en -ofps 25 -o NUL -passlogfile divxpass.log
mencoder.exe dvd:// -dvd-device e:\VIDEO_TS -ffourcc XVID -af volume=10 -aspect 16:9 -of avi -noodml -oac mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3:br=64 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vbitrate=512:vpass=2 -vf scale=320:180,harddup -info name="TEST" -alang en -ofps 25 -o c:\temp\test.avi -passlogfile divxpass.log

I removed the the threads=2, because I don't have a dual core processor, and from what I have read threads won't be effective without a DC processor. Correct me if that is not true.

With these changes the file would load and play without any noticeable problems with A/V sync until I scanned forward/backward. Once I scanned though, the video would continue to run faster that normal play and the A/V would desync as much as 4-5 seconds, maybe more.

Additionally, I have a green bar at the bottom 1/3 of the screen and the color is off like an old tube TV laid on it's side (morray effect). These failures appear similar to what I would up with in some of my other testing, but off hand I can't remember what parameters corrected these problems.

Finally, the file size with the modifications was smaller (500MB) but still almost double the size of that when using other techniques.

Maybe if I get some time this weekend, I'll try some other things. In the mean time, if anyone has some suggestions, I'm all ears.