MKV format outdated

Discussion in 'High Definition Software' started by coopervid, May 17, 2019.

  1. coopervid

    coopervid Well-Known Member

    Hi,

    for many years MKV covered all you needed. But now there are more features coming up that can't be included in MKV files - like Dolby Vision.
    Is the MKS future dead or are there developers that will adapt / enhance the MKV format to make it fit for the future? Just to let you know - I never used it because it doesn't cover Dolby Vision which is an essential feature for me.
     
  2. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator

    Well, when you get any kind of support for playback outside of officially licensed players for DV, then we'll talk. :) MKV is most certainly not "outdated" by any means. There's no standard for putting a CLOSED format like DV into an MKV container, but, should Dolby wish to open it up I'm quite sure the developers of all the tools would be happy to add support for it. There's no technical reason MKV couldn't support it if the format were open. But given that an officially licensed player like PowerDVD doesn't support it, well, um, good luck. :)
     
    James likes this.
  3. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Dolby doesn't license DV to media player manufacturers. AFAIK there is no Nvidia Shield, Zidoo, Dune-HD, Vero, ... with DV support. So DV is a no-go anyway. If you want a projector, you can't have DV. (Projectors already struggle with HDR10).
    There isn't even DV for PowerDVD, if you want to use a PC as a media player. And no, I don't want to play mkv files on an LG TV. Even if mkv supports DV. Where to output the Atmos / DTS:X sound? With HDMI ARC? What a mess.
    If you want / need DV for some (delusional? but who am I to judge) reason, get the fake Oppo and play isos. ;)

    Link to the fake Oppo: http://www.bd-mod.com/
     
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  4. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Maybe the more open HDR10+ format will change things? But wait, then you'll need a new TV. And player. Bummer. ;)

    (I can live without this)
     
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  5. DaveO88

    DaveO88 Moderator DE

    with eARC
     
  6. coopervid

    coopervid Well-Known Member

    Yes, it's a mess. Earc is just a work around. PowerDVd is a mess. What I would like to see is an extension to the MKV format. Elby is also not supposed to shrink movies and still provide HDR10+ and DV in those. But they do and can. Therefore my wish is that there will be communication to have these features in an extended MKV format. Call me a dreamer but I think many people would love this. Yes, it's a challenge but people at Elby should have the knowledge to push this for the MKV community. This would be a big leap forward for non-disc based video.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  7. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator

    You are NOT understanding this at all unfortunately. It's NOT a matter of Elby "figuring it out". It's a matter of an ENTIRE eco system that DOES NOT EXIST. Even if, and this is not likely, the MKV spec is enhanced to support DV and a common method for storing it in an MKV container is agreed upon, and then Elby adheres to that standard, what are you going to play it on? Hopes and dreams? Elby isn't responsible for the rest of the eco system. Nor should they be. What decoder, renderer, player are you planning on using? I don't think you quite get the scope of the challenge here. It's not just a simple matter of Elby sticking DV in an MKV and all is well in the world. Not even remotely close. DV is a closed codec which means there's no decoder, no renderer, and no player support for it anywhere outside of an actual LICENSED DV environment. That doesn't exist on the PC. That doesn't exist on streamers. The idea that this is an MKV problem to solve is ludicrous. It's not. It has NOTHING to do with MKV at all.
     
  8. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator

    Ummmmm, yea, about that. If you have a brand new C9 with a new receiver that supports it, maybe. My C8 doesn't support it. Best it'll do is DD+ based ATMOS which is hardly the same as a nice TrueHD based ATMOS track. And as far as I know, the tests people have done show that the LG player doesn't support DV in an MKV container, only MP4...which limits the audio options anyway. Boy this closed format stuff is fun! :D
     
  9. coopervid

    coopervid Well-Known Member

    Yes, I do understand it but I don't want to accept that all the new features are solely only able using discs. What other proposal do you have to avoid discs?
     
  10. DaveO88

    DaveO88 Moderator DE

    how does it look with .ts, I have some lg demos with DV in ts container this is more suitable for both formats (assuming a complete eARC chain)
     

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  11. coopervid

    coopervid Well-Known Member

    Naah - tried that when I had issues with "A star is born". DV only shows as HD.
     
  12. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Get the fake Oppo for 400 bucks. This is currently the only option.
     
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  13. coopervid

    coopervid Well-Known Member

    James,

    I understand the options for now. I mean the future...
     
  14. ErichV

    ErichV Well-Known Member

    Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future.
     
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  15. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator

    Exactly There is no future. Not without the components I've said. You need a decoder. Where do you propose that comes from for a CLOSED SYSTEM? You need a renderer. Where do you propose that comes from for a CLOSED SYSTEM? You need a player. Where do you propose that comes from for a CLOSED SYSTEM? You can say you understand but don't accept, but, sadly, that's just too bad. :)
     
  16. DaveO88

    DaveO88 Moderator DE

    @James
    I just think about buying this fake oppo but somehow I am too stupid to buy the Player.
    It fails because of what I should enter there in MAC, someone can tell me what to do

    1.jpg
     
  17. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    OT, but...

    You can enter any MAC for the fake Oppo. You only need to enter a correct MAC for a jailbreak firmware for a real Oppo (or Pioneer or whatnot). Just enter anything. (If "x" doesn't work, just enter zeroes)
    This Chinese seller is a little bit ... difficult, as he speaks very bad English. But otherwise he seems trustworthy.

    EDIT:
    Aren't you a happy Zidoo user? Why the fake Oppo? Just for DV? Damn, Dolby must have a brilliant marketing department.
     
  18. DaveO88

    DaveO88 Moderator DE

    Thx

    but yes, I'm satisfied with the z9s, but I want to be able to use everything, it does not matter if it is DV or not, it could have been anything else. And if I can already see it and is present on the disc then I would want to use it already.
     
  19. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator

    If only the display mfg's agreed with that concept. sigh. I'd love to see what HDR10+ looks like on Alien, as an example, but, LG doesn't believe I need to. Just like Dolby doesn't believe anyone needs to see Dolby Vision outside of a licensed player and a licensed display where they reap piles of cash </sarcasm>. I do believe they're going to lose this one only because HDR10+ is going to end up being ubiquitous at some point. Dolby Vision may be relevant some day, but, ask yourself a simple question....when has there EVER been a future payoff for a technology of today? Meaning, Dolby Vision may be superior and all that (debatable) but there's zero consumer tech that can truly benefit from it out there today. When we get displays at 4000 nits and higher, Dolby Vision starts to become relevant. At the 700 nits I'm getting on my OLED....not so much. But do you REALLY think there's a zero rebuy plan at work here for when those displays eventually do come? Or do you think the format will change and they'll force us all to rebuy them anyway? Just a thought.
     
    James likes this.
  20. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Dolby's marketing department seems to be on par with their licensing department. :)
     
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