Meltdown & Spectre potpourri

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by DrinkLyeAndDie, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. BrianG61UK

    BrianG61UK Well-Known Member

    Surely it's mainly the Meltdown fixes that significantly slow down Intel PCs that don't have, and make use of, the INVPCID instruction. No Meltdown on AMD, only Spectre and, as I understand it, much less slowdown.
     
  2. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Fudzilla: Torvalds wades into CTS Labs' AMD chip security report

     
  3. RedFox 1

    RedFox 1 Super Moderator

    Dr Lisa Su also had a word on MSNBC last night. She said the previously unknown company, which she did not name, was taking known facts and over estimating their potential , she said there was nothing new that everyone in the community did not know about. Her statement is showing in AMDs stock price which didn't move at all on the news.
     
  4. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Effectively that's why I referred to the article. The article is basically saying it's manipulation and there are bugs at the same time. Yes, the approach to publicizing things was wrong and hyped. CTS Labs has harmed themselves. The reasons behind it are troublesome since it's been admitted that there were some financial motives. That being said, the reported issues do seem to exist so they didn't merely invent non-existent bugs, vulnerabilities, etc. Is the sky falling? No

    Also, let's be very clear about something that I believe gets downplayed too often by [some] security experts. Linus Torvalds and many experts can sit back and say it's all fine because it requires admin privileges, local access, etc. Most people aren't them. Many users are completely ignorant so these things can and will happen when vulnerabilities exist.
     
  5. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Anandtech: Intel Publishes Spectre & Meltdown Hardware Plans: Fixed Gear Later This Year

    This news really came out yesterday. The real reason I am sharing this particular story isn't because of the hardware fixes in Cascade Lake but rather the nice list down in the article about all the older CPUs that Intel has released microcode updates for. They've going all the way back to Penryn. Shocking, actually. Hopefully Microsoft releases a relevant standalone Windows update for this since expecting OEMs like Dell to push out a BIOS update for something like an old Arrandale-based laptop is absurd. Obviously, these older processors will be hurt by the update but for those who wish to be on the safe side and either do not want to or cannot upgrade to a more modern laptop at this time then that is a way of protecting themselves.

    The other interesting aspect is that Meltdown & Spectre v2 are handled with hardware in-silicon fixes. Spectre v1 will remain a software fix until a hardware fix is actually found. That is troublesome but I guess 2 out of 3 isn't bad all things considered.
     
  6. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Fudzilla: Intel to bring out Sceptre hardware fixes

    Wise move with the partitioning. Actually, I believe AMD was already doing this which is why the severity of the impact on AMD processors was not as extreme.
     
  7. RedFox 1

    RedFox 1 Super Moderator

    Someone told me that Cascade lake will only be Xeon processors, but I could have misunderstood it.
     
  8. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Correct, Cascade Lake is Xeon. But both Cascade Lake and 8th generation Core processors will get it.

     
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  9. RedFox 1

    RedFox 1 Super Moderator

    My next build barring any unforeseen issues will be "IceLake" 10nm, Its supposed to reach 5ghz on air. With no overclocking.
     
  10. RedFox 1

    RedFox 1 Super Moderator

    It’s a bad time to buy PC hardware right now, what with graphics card prices going through the roof due to crytpocurrency mining and practically every CPU on the planet being vulnerable to the recently uncovered Spectre and Meltdown CPU flaws. Fortunately, PC land’s CPU woes may not be around for much longer, as Intel’s suggested its new, upcoming Cannon Lake and Ice Lake processors won’t be affected by the same security exploits as literally almost every other CPU they’ve made since 1995. Thank the blessed silicon gods.
     
  11. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Agreed about the current time be bad. Flawed CPUs, lost performance, high-prices for RAM, insanely high pricing for GPUs, etc. Now really is not the time to build a system unless you selectively grab the parts on sale over time and you'll really need to find some hidden gems to make it worthwhile. That's how I built my previous system. I got all the parts on sale, from retailers without sales tax, and free shipping. I saved a bundle. Nowadays, it's getting harder. I'm still stuck with my old GTX 780 which annoys me to no end. It still works for gaming but for CloneBD and the like it sucks. I can't upgrade to a GTX 1050 which would be awesome for CloneBD because it would be a step down for gaming. So, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I simply refuse to pay out the nose for a GPU because of crypto-miners. I have no qualms saying that I hope to see crypto-currency crash and burn. I am that fed up with the BS.

    Hopefully the performance of the new CPUs is increased enough to make it worthwhile on top of hardware protections rather than it being a slight bump.
     
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  12. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Just an update. I've been running my system with KB4090007 installed and enabled for nearly a week. There have been times that I perceived a possible loss in performance/speed for an operation but that may simply be because I am looking for it. If there actually was a loss of performance it was not catastrophic. More like negligible. I might just be seeing what I am looking for when in reality it isn't there. Confirmation bias. That said, for all intents and purposes, for how I use my system I am really not seeing performance losses. One thing I really haven't been able to test due to other on-going things is gaming. So, I can't comment on whether it will cause harm in that department.

    Edit: KB4090007 covers way more processors now. More versions of Skylake, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, etc. I'm waiting to see the release of the update for really old CPUs like Arrandale.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
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  13. RedFox 1

    RedFox 1 Super Moderator

    I wonder if they will go as far back as Conroe and Wolfdale.
     
  14. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Wolfdale, yes. Conroe, probably not. If reporting is accurate then Intel does plan on pushing out the microcode updates going back surprisingly far. Given that I seriously doubt we'll see OEMs push BIOS updates to all those old systems I would expect to see Microsoft push an update that loads microcode changes at boot-time like KB4090007 does.

    Anandtech: Intel Publishes Spectre & Meltdown Hardware Plans: Fixed Gear Later This Year

    Hell. Yorkfield? Stunning if they really do it. If I get my old Q9550 running again I'll have to grab that update and see how badly it kills performance. :p

    Edit: As per the article the cut-off seems to be 45nm. The 65nm and older CPUs are left out in the cold.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
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  15. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

  16. gereral1

    gereral1 Well-Known Member

    8th Gen. ...so there repairing coffee lake in 8700k with new batch shipping?
     
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  17. RedFox 1

    RedFox 1 Super Moderator

    I have not heard that myself but if it’s true it’s good news


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  18. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Not really sure come to think of it. Possibly a typo or they really will fix Coffee Lake. But will it be a real in-silicon fix or BS. Or they are simply wrong but that was what they reported. That said, at one time in an older Anandtech article they pondered if the 9th gen would be a refresh of 8th gen (Coffee Lake).

    Anandtech: Intel 8th Generation and 9th Generation Processor Lists Leaked: Coffee Lake Refresh?
     
  19. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    That paragraph sums it up. No one really knows. And they are referring to 8th gen and Cannon Lake in the same breath. Except Cannon Lake is 9th gen unless I got lost somewhere along the way.
     
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  20. gereral1

    gereral1 Well-Known Member

    I'm hoping Intel fixes this and the hard drives speeds go back up. To what I have read this hit puts intel chips close to amd except for single core performance. I've now got 3500 bucks saved but still waiting tell all this shit settles down.
     
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