Maybe you should not upgrade to Vista

Discussion in 'Third Party Products' started by James, Feb 10, 2007.

  1. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Most console gamers aren't using them, so the console developers aren't really developing console games with keyboard/mouse
    in mind (as such, the controls for those devices aren't always implemented well--even after remapping). And regardless, it's not nearly the same as being able to use a Logitech G15 keyboard paired with a Razer Deathadder mouse.

    Which PC gamers do want . . .

    I agree with you completely here. I am pretty angry about it. I'm holding off switching to Vista on my gaming rig until a game comes out
    that warrants me switching to directx 10.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2007
  2. 5150

    5150 Well-Known Member

    Has anyone else tried this? It looks pretty good. I'm downloading right now but I'm apprehensive about installing it. Has it slowed anyone's computers down? Am I able to uninstall it? Any feedback is appreciated.
  3. RedFox 1

    RedFox 1 Super Moderator

    It has not slowed down my computer in anyway. Install it in Safe Mode.:agree: And remember to create a restore point.:agree:
  4. Gerff

    Gerff New Member

    I have a few issues with this Vista\DX10 thing. As of the last inquiry of DX 10, the only video card fully supporting it is the newest NVidia card, ATI does not have full support on their hardware for it yet, and NVidia's older cards do not either. The DRM thing we are going to have to live with until someone with enough $ gets the balls to fight hollywood and Microsuck. They have already gone beyond legal and civil rights with their DRM software among many things. Microsoft does not allow for any type of actual security or privacy on their software (Any of it, not just windows), and actualy builds ways into it so their spys (Govt also) can access anything on your computer very easily and puts it right in the EULA that they can do so, and the windows defender makes it even worse. Microsoft has taken more of your privacy rights away from you than the Federal Government has (and neither one should have gone as far as they have, but the people let them, consent by silence and non-action). As a 100% rule of thumb for the last 6 years, anything you install on your computer that is new from Microsoft takes away your privacy just a little bit more, and allows easier access into your "Personal" computer by anyone that wants in. This first started with the remote services and remote desktop features in XP, do you think anyone actualy uses this for what it was advertised for? And even better, do you think it is advertised as what it was designed for? If you uncheck the box to allow these to run, and check your services, why are they still running? Another tool Microsoft uses for spying is ActiveX, anything ActiveX is a privacy killer. It is MADE TO REMOTELY STORE INFORMATION ABOUT YOU ON A REMOTE SERVER wherever the software makers want, that is what ActiveX is, and that is literaly how it can be defined. How do you think you can log into any Yahoo service and your information be right there, including records of what you accessed from the other PC. Try it with Yahoo videos if you would like to test this. Its like a SuperCookie on an internet server you can't delete (Yahoo also will not delete your account info if you ask them to either, the government will not let them). ActiveX is legal spyware, explain that to me. Anyway, enough of the ranting for now. This is all true by the way, I can keep going for days because this does not even scratch the surface of how Microsoft has taken every bit of privacy away. You have three viable options (would be four if ANYONE could beat Microsoft in court), 1. Use a Linux based PC to access the Internet. 2. If possible, use Windows 98 or XP SP1 with NO UPDATES. 3. Lie about your personal information on ALL registrations (or don't register anything), and don't keep any personaly identifiable information on your PC, dont even enter it without saving (its still there), and keep NO incriminating evidence (don't do ANYTHING illegal) on your PC. These are the only 3 ways you are safe. Have a PC for games and such with no personal info on it, and a Linux PC (or Mcintosh) for your personal records and use. And as far as Movies or Music, the only way to watch/listen/other is XP SP1 w/o updates (or internet access for other) and Good Hardware and Software if you are looking for best quality (Or McIntosh is actualy the best at this).

    One other point, I ALWAYS disable automatic updates, firewall, etc. before I even allow my computer to access the net after a reinstall, and NEVER turn it back on.

    I am sorry, but if someone wants something on your computer, they will get it, so don't burden yourself thinking you can actualy stop them.

    "Sometimes I wonder what Microsoft means by more secure, their customers personal security, the governments homeland security, or Hollywoods Copyrite security. My guess would be the latter 2."
  5. oldjoe

    oldjoe Well-Known Member

    I whole heartedly agree with you about disabling MS Updates.
    Windows Firewall on the other hand, is a very efficient tool.
  6. LINUS

    LINUS Beta Tester

    How about the numerous rumors that Vista has it's own way of dealing with the problems reclock is used for, i.e. letting the videostream dictate the timing and having the audio follow the videostream.

    @James: Is there any truth to that? The EVR (extended video renderer) under Vista is supposed to take over the job of reclock. Care to comment? Thanks!
  7. Lemming

    Lemming Member

    That depends on the developer of the game, some games may run on Vista or XP and take advantage of whats available to them. But others like Halo 2 will only run on Vista.
  8. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    I'm talking specifically about the games that are being developed to take advantage of directx 10.
  9. Clams

    Clams Well-Known Member

    About DX10 and Vista

    Saw this posted elsewhere by a guy I know whos a game dev in the graphics area. He still hates Vista - but wants to clear up a misconception.


    I'm no Vista fan-boy. I have no intention of installing it anytime soon.
    I would like to shoot down the tired argument of DX10 being on Vista
    only to sell systems, though.

    DX10 is not possible on XP, 2000 or NT. When Microsoft made the decision
    to put the Windows rendering pipeline inside of the kernel in NT4 for
    performance reasons they set themselves down a path that they couldn't
    easily get off. It's frickin' dangerous to have a video subsystem inside
    of kernel space. If a video driver horks the whole system goes down. All
    of those bluescreens you saw in NT 4, 2000, and (to a lesser degree)
    weren't Windows problems. They were problematic video drivers that
    barfed all over the kernel and destroyed the stability of the running

    While all of that was going on Microsoft was doing what they normally
    do. They started with a lackluster rendering technology, DirectX and
    incrementally made it better and better. Since they weren't tied to an
    industry consortium like the OpenGL ARB they didn't have to work by
    committee. Instead they could listen to developers and push DirectX
    quickly and efficiently. DXs 1, & 2 sucked. 3 sucked less. 4,5,6 were
    better but forgetable. 7, 8, and 9 shined. The success of 9 was a double
    edged sword though, because of the face that the entire rendering system
    ended up going through kernel space. The things Microsoft wanted to do,
    geometry shaders, unified shader pipelines, Managed DirectX performance
    increases, 10 bit rendering, etc... were going to put a huge strain on
    an already jerry-rigged graphic system in Windows. At the same time
    Microsoft determined that GDI/GDI+ was a dead end for future Windows
    window rendering. In Windows there is no concept of a window manager.
    Each window manages itself. It's up to applications to detect when their
    window has become dirty and redraw it. This system is slow, prone to
    mistakes (like when you move a window and a nonresponsive app under it
    doesn't update so it's like you're painting with the window you are
    dragging), and doesn't allow for true window compositing. All of these
    dead ends, kernel space, DX10 features that couldn't be put into kernel
    space, and GDI/GDI+ make Microsoft realize that it was time to move the
    graphics system back out of the kernel.

    The rendering pipeline in Vista runs entirely outside of the kernel. An
    errant video driver won't bring down the system. Since Microsoft started
    over from scratch they corrected all of the problems of GDI/GDI+, made
    it possible for DX10 to add all of the future rendering tech the game
    devs were asking for, put in true window managing/compositing, and were
    even able to rewrite DX 9.0c (called 9.0v in Vista) to work outside of
    the kernel.

    For rendering/graphics geeks like me Vista is Windows as it should be.
    The massive changes in the rendering system aren't readily apparent,
    though, as Microsoft did an admirable job of keeping the old system
    running decently for as long as they did. In the end though, there was
    no way that Microsoft was going to move the tech forward with the given
  10. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Hey, thanks for posting that! I found it very interesting. Do you have a link to the source?

    I'm still annoyed that I'm going to have to eventually change my gaming rig to Vista, but oh well . . .

    I'm going to wait until a DirectX 10 game comes out that I'm really interested in before I switch.
    Still need to wait for next gen Directx10 supported video cards as well. I think I will pass
    on the 8800 series from Nvidia.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2007
  11. Clams

    Clams Well-Known Member

    The source board is kinda an "inner sanctum" forum where the old Air Warrior alpha community hides and hangs out. It's located on a private NNTP news server (not HTML).

    The writer was in charge of graphics for AW and has since worked for EA and others. I've known him well over 10 years and just assume he speaks "ex-cathedra" on such matters based on his history.

    If you wanna quote him - Just quote "Quarters" - like I did. :)


  12. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    O.k., thanks. Yeah, I definitely found that post very informative. Thanks again
  13. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Interesting read. I didn't know that Vista has the renderer in user mode.
    I still believe it would be possible to port the DX10 API to 2000/XP. (Maybe I'm wrong, this isn't my area of expertise)
  14. TheGameKing

    TheGameKing New Member


    I have Game Jackal 5.8 (pRO) and it works fine on Vista Build 6000.

    I reason I bought GJ is that I have over 600+ games in my collection. I do not use the orginal CD/DVD to play the game. The cd's wear out or get so badly scatched that they are unuseable. And of course the game manufacter is not going to replace the game.

    I would also be nice to pay for the license through PayPal since alot of people don't have credit cards. Let me know when on the latter and I'll update my GJ to slyfox.


    Bob Garlick
    A.K.A. TheGameKing
  15. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    Actually, you may find this interesting, James and everyone else. :)

    Here's an exerpt from the blog:

    Very very interesting, indeed. :)
  16. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Thank you for posting that link. I'll be keeping a close eye on that.
  17. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    I figured other people would find it as interesting as me. :)

    And, I've never really bought the whole idea that they couldn't make a DX10 for XP anyway. Alright, it might not function exactly the same but I think the fact that it's been said to be essentially impossible by MS makes it smack of complete BS. At the very least compatibility is achievable if they wanted it to be. MS certainly has the manpower and money. They just want people to upgrade so here's a perfect way to push it.

    I just always find it fun to watch a small group do something that someone like MS says just can't be done.
  18. LittleMrJ

    LittleMrJ Member

    The FINAL word on Vista!!! Really, I'm not EVEN joking!!!

    I didn't notice a link, or see anybody mention this throughout the thread, but ANYONE with questions or concerns about Vista NEEDS to read this...

    This guy is a doctor of computer science, as well as a data security genious... This report has been referred to as "The longest suicide note in history", is constantly being updated, and has been creating a tsunami of crap for Microsoft to deal with... It's a bit technical, but oh so detailed (and a bit frightening)...

    Read it if you haven't already, and if you have...Read it again!!!
  19. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    An update on the Alky Project. I prevously posted a link and about their efforts to release compatibility libraries for DX10 on XP.

  20. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Directx 10.1 announced with Vista SP1


    What the bleepity bleeeping bleep is Microsoft trying to do? Send me to crappy console gaming?

    click this: and read the article

    I need to build my girlfriend a system. I was going to go with a 1 gig 850 mhz radeon HD 2900xt 2.0ghz (and if you think my choice is foolish, visit . . . also the HD support is better and under Vista 64 Ultimate; I'm noticing slightly better drivers, which really isn't saying much), but it appears that Directx 10 is suddenly obsolete. This must be annoying 8800 gts/gtx/ultra and 2900 owners, who probably paid anywhere from $350-$700 in recent months.


    What to do . . . what to do . . .

    Pretty annoying to lay down a relatively large chunk of change only to have it made obsolete in about a month or two. ATI's directx 10.1 cards probably won't be released until sometime in 2008 (probably the multiple gpu cards). I don't know about Nvidia.

    Microsoft is really making me angry. :mad:
    I'm so annoyed at the moment.

    I really wish PC Gamers had another choice (I honestly hate console gaming).
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2007