Managed Copy to be absent from final AACS specification

Discussion in 'AnyDVD HD (Blu-ray issues)' started by Vrex, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. Vrex

    Vrex Member

    Consumer Electronics Daily reports that "Managed Copy" will NOT be included in the AACS specification due to be released this summer.
    It is indeed good that there is unmanaged copy.
     
  2. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    Just another excuse not to include it.
    If you ask me
     
  3. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Retired Moderator

    So HD DVD dies and they pull managed copy feature from the spec? This doesn't impress me at all.
     
  4. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    I can hear Sony snickering in the distance.
     
  5. Peer

    Peer Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    No, the reason simply is, because there already is a managed copy provision - "managed by user, driven by SlySoft" :D
     
  6. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Retired Moderator

    ROFLMAO!!!!!!! I love that answer. :) And personally, I feel that's the BEST managed copy solution there is! :D
     
  7. iansilv

    iansilv Well-Known Member

    Seriously- slysoft has helped me manage my copies just fine! :)
     
  8. seeya

    seeya Active Member

    Believe it or not. I urgently want Managed Copy to come. Why? Because it's the cheapest way to get a "legal license" to own a movie. Maybe many AnyDVD owners do not care about that, but I do. Currently I'm buying all Blu-Ray movies which I like and put them into my shelf. There they are collecting dust because I rip them once and then never need them again. With Managed Copy it would be possible to make a legal copy (you'd get some kind of invoice/bill for the copy) and then resell the physical disc on ebay. The first Managed Copy is supposed to very cheap, maybe even free. So this would be an ultra cheap way to have a clean conscience and still save a lot of money.

    BTW, Amir has denied that Managed Copy will be missing from the final AACS specification. Amir has contacted his former contacts and asked them about the rumor that Managed Copy would be dropped - and it's false!
     
  9. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Retired Moderator

    Maybe not, but, there are two things here that need to be taken into consideration. AFAIK, Managed Copy wasn't to allow you to sell the original, it's to allow you to make a legit backup of something you already own. Selling the original doesn't give you the right to keep the managed copy.

    Second, even if it's not dropped from the spec, it was never mandatory on BD so it's up to the discretion of the studios to implement it. Yea, good luck with that. They very well may do so, and then jack up the price another 10 bucks for adding "convenience" features.
     
  10. starz

    starz Well-Known Member


    don't get how you can copy a movie then sell the original, cause that would be like renting a original, and isn't this just some kinda way to copy a movie with drm restrictions onto the computer like they do with mp3s ?

    besides that without the orig disc how do you recover your files after say after a hdd crash, allot may use raid witch is fine but thats not making it cheaper then keeping the orig, and if you really have a big collection this gets really expensive to store once let alone twice especially with power consumption, as it stands for me i need About 20 1 TB hdds 1 time around,
    and they would be full now, since I'm a media collector I like original disc's, I like them on a shelf in brand new condition, so a PC copy or a disc copy takes the brunt of the wear from watching my collection. keeps my discs like new, but for now i rather spend my 200 on new tittles then on empty hdds for movies I already paid for, and I do take care of my discs as well.
     
  11. 3r1c

    3r1c Well-Known Member

    i dont see the benefit of not including it in the spec.
    it would be optional if the studio wanted to enable it, so why remove the choice?
     
  12. PrincipalityFusion

    PrincipalityFusion Well-Known Member

    Well, the whole point of running a movie server is to store movies on hard drives. It's pretty hard to justify the convenience of a server if you still have to load disks every time.

    Also, say you have 100 high definition movies. To back those up to optical disk would be conservatively $1500(100 * $15/blank). Now you can buy a terabyte drive which holds say 25 movies (at 40Gig/movie). For your 100 movie collection, you need to spend $1000 (4 drives * $250/drive). Now if you run a RAID 5 setup which has redundancy, you need to buy another drive for the parity data so the cost is $1250, still less than optical disk.

    Now you might argue that hard drives break down, but optical disk are forever. Well, optical disks aren't forever and hard drives have warranties. The Seagates that i run my server with have 5 year warranties and i'm running raid 5 which will automatically rebuild the array once i get the drive fixed. What i've decided to do is keep a hot spare so that when one does break down, the array rebuilds using the hot spare and then there is no down time while i get the broken drive fixed, which then becomes a hot spare.

    Also, i haven't mentioned that hard drive prices come down much faster than blank disk prices. 1 Terabyte drives were around $500 when first on market about a year ago+ and now you can get one for around $200 if you look hard enough. Dual layer disks much less high definition blanks are still relatively expensive for the length of time the've been out. So within a year or so, i expect to be able to purchase a terabyte drive for under $200 while i'll still be paying $15 to $20 for a blank.

    So i'm not trying to knock your alternative, I just think doing hard drive storage as opposed to optical disk is more cost effective in the long run even if you just save movies to drive and put the drive on a shelf.
     
  13. Zeratul

    Zeratul Well-Known Member

    plus you dont have to worry about scratching the disc :) thats my main problem, with siblings and such that dont value my movies as much as i do:bang:
     
  14. starz

    starz Well-Known Member

    your miss interrupting what I said to some degree,
    yeah what your saying is cheaper then blanks for now.
    but my point was,
    you have your hard drive copy 1 Time so there for you have your server copy, you have the original disc in case your drive goes out.
    if your looking to flip a switch and bang theres all your movies just click and go, well in a collection the size of what I got and will continue to grow fast, you'll need more then one server box, theres in this case more then one expense meaning the 250 bucks for the hard drive it don't end there
    if your gona do rack mount servers you gain more flexibility but still even more cost.

    now if your looking to use 1 TB hard drives external, then you would have cost effectiveness. but not a true server box unless your going to power all the externals at once witch again you have limits with all this in your house.


    let me stop giving examples and let me just ask if I wanted to build a 100 TB server. in my house mind you witch would be 25 % full now after only 8 or so months of buying these things. how would I do that. and not have more into raid copies and hard wear power consumption noise heat ? this server would be 1 volume have all my movies ready for action a true server that wont be full after 2 days lol maybe after a year. oh yeah gotta buy all these movies on top of that storage cost guess that be one major bill from newegg lol if they could even fill my order assuming i wanted to build it all at once now. I'd probably buy drive to plug as i go but how does one do it? this server buys a hell allot of BDs at 8-35 a peace most I get for 15

    meaning, less money duplicating what I already own and more into new copies witch is what I'm doing for now

    100 or so discs is not really a collection to me 1 k up then yeah I'd call that a bad a$$ collection.
    I'm not knocking people who have smaller collections or who have the want for a server like that I'd like to do it too but all that work makes me just wanna burn the dang thing to a disc, and don't call 100 TB a big space it is but not for this use. especially long term.

    and above all that I have nothing but problems out of powerdvd playing these and you know there going keep screwing around with it till nothing works. rendering all this a waste anyways. I have had 0 issues out of my standalone far better quality far better playback and it plays all burned rips, there also seams to be no attention drawn this way toward stopping BD_R playback of ripped discs they will eventually come up with away to stop ISO playback eventually, they have made it possible to burn your own BDMV discs and a ripped ones no different then a home build. in short this with standalone will be no different then DVD providing sly-soft keeps cracking the drms on these things. and the cost is going to go down rather fast on the blanks

    and no offense but the server is kinda more hassle since powerdvd cant get well anything right with BD and no I don't blame them, I think its cause they keep changing things with every BD they release then again maybe they are that bad. and usually when a rip don't work the original don't ether, but my standalone always does.

    I do find it kinda funny they have a harder time making these things play from originals then it is for sly-soft to crack it. I mean anydvd is updated so fast and accurately that you can copy the dang thing before they get them playable in a comp lol :D:agree::

    for now I mainly test and play with this stuff don't really build much of anything yet, but if I was going to I'd get 750 GB externals cheapest per GB at newegg right now slap a number on the drive fill it add the movies on it to my movie data program (collectorz.com) base with a drive number and just plug and play and keep my original disc for back up, well not that you could sell or give it away cause like i said in the post before that would be no different then renting and ripping them witch is the part that I didn't get before in the previous post about mange copy allowing you to buy and copy your disc to your comp and sell your original cause you don't need it.

    also I see more activity and demand for BD discs now particularly blanks keep selling out every wear, and the way the cost is going down is to buy them in 25 packs for SL ones
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2008
  15. starz

    starz Well-Known Member

    in a abusive environment were your going to have to redo or buy it every other day I could most certainly see the investment, in protecting it.

    in my case the discs are in a climate controlled room 24/7 and are handled with care I have a few audio Cd's that are about 19 years old now and not one issue, I'd say that disc has served, and still can, proper storage handling optic disc's can last a very long time

    I have handled extreme amounts of media only fatally damaging about 3 disc's over the past 4 years but they were the burned back ups
     
  16. roog

    roog Well-Known Member

    My understanding of managed copy

    IMHO, from what I've read about managed copy it sounds more like a pay-per-view scheme to eliminate unrestricted copying of rented and possibly even purchased hi-def discs.

    With this business model you would initially purchase or rent the movie from a vendor like Blockbuster or Netflix and they would provide you with a key for initial viewing. Once activated the key would expire after a set time period of say 24 hours.

    The managed copy feature would give you the option to copy the disc to your hard drive or other media. After you return the disc and the initial key expires, you would have to purchase a new key online or by phone in order to view it again. Also the key would only allow you to view the video on the computer or player it was activated on.

    Eventually, when fast and low cost flash drives that have the capacity for hi-def video are available, discs will probably be eliminated altogether. Instead you would take your flash drive to Blockbuster or a kiosk and the movie would be copied to it along with your initial key

    I don't fear this model however. As with all protection schemes, someone will figure out a way around it.

    These are my thoughts about managed copy. I'm not an authority on it and I'm sure someone will be eager to correct me if I've made any wrong assumptions.
     
  17. iansilv

    iansilv Well-Known Member

    Anyone here ever used a Kaliedescape? It is awesome. And here is the thing- Kaliedescape needs managed copy to be able to copy bluray disks like it can dvds. George Lucas has one, all these major hollywood types have one. I think managed copy will still make it in some how so K can legally copy movies... Just my thoughts.
     
  18. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member

    This honestly when it was first said that it may be included....I knew it would never be if this format won. Thank god for slysoft to assist us to be ale to do this.
     
  19. PrincipalityFusion

    PrincipalityFusion Well-Known Member

    Have you seen the prices on Kaliedescope. I guess they need all that money to fight the lawsuits they have to face to protect their business.

    But yes, i have poor man's Kaliedescope. It's called AnyDVD HD:rock:
     
  20. captain_video

    captain_video Well-Known Member

    That's correct. Making a copy of a disc you own is fine but once you sell the original you no longer own it, making your copy illegal.