Loving UHD Support but ~15% of MKVs glitchy

Discussion in 'CloneBD' started by dbG33K, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. dbG33K

    dbG33K Member

    Like the title says, many of my ripped UHDs worked like a charm. No problems ripping to ISOs (using AnyDVDHD "Rip to Image") and the resulting MKVs, after putting the ISO through CloneBD, look and sound excellent.

    For the other roughly 15% of discs I try, the ISO is created just fine, but the MKV's video is choppy and has loads of visual artifacts/glitches. I've included a screenshot showing an example of the artifacting.

    The discs always look near pristine, I'm always sure to use the cleaning cloth for my glasses to wipe off any smudges before ripping the ISO.

    I don't think it's my drive (ASUS BW-16D1HT running stock 3.00 firmware) since it's been able to make perfect UHD isos most of the time. And most of the problematic discs are brand new, from new sealed straight into the drive.

    Anybody else having these problems and have a surefire solution to solve them? It's sure frustrating buying these discs only to have them unable to backup :(

    Thanks

    - dbG33K
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Ch3vr0n

    Ch3vr0n Translator NL & Mod

    You're in the wrong section. AnyDVD doesn't make mkv's. Play the rip itself (or source disc with AnyDVD active) in a REAL Blu-ray player like PowerDVD. No pixelation issues there, then it's not an AnyDVD problem but either a CloneBD one or VLC.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P with Tapatalk
     
  3. Pete

    Pete Forum Admin Staff Member

    Lecturing is fine, but you could also just silently move it ;)

    Are those MKVs made with the lossless option or did you compress? If so, I'm assuming nVidia?
    Ideally you should post a CloneBD log file created after the conversion (which you can also abort after a few minutes to save time).
     
  4. dbG33K

    dbG33K Member

    MKVs are being made compressed in CloneBD using hardware acceleration (nVidia), yes.

    Are log files stored anywhere after I've begun work on other discs?
     
  5. Pete

    Pete Forum Admin Staff Member

    No, sorry, though that is a feature planned for one of the next versions.

    Can you give me a list of the problematic titles? I know of one (Terminator 2) that has this issue, because the nVidia decoder doesn't get the frame order right.
    Does using software encoding work correctly (I know, it's too slow to really be fun, but just for a test).
     
  6. dbG33K

    dbG33K Member

    No worries. I'll have to re-rip that ISO (which was The Mummy Returns, from the "The Mummy Ultimate Trilogy (US)" set) before I can get the log file for you.

    As for a list of other titles that have turned out similarly:
    Split (2016), The Hunger Games (from The Complete 4-Film Collection), The Bourne Identity (from the Ultimate Collection)

    For those movies from collections, I only tried the first movie, then haven't attempted the others yet. Except the Mummy Ultimate Trilogy, in which the 1st and 3rd movies were fine.

    EDIT: For most users, if the rip to ISO works smoothly/completes, does anybody else run into these issues with the resulting MKVs? Or should a complete ISO always result in flawless MKV?
     
  7. dbG33K

    dbG33K Member

    So on a whim, I decided to download a program that could playback the UHD ISOs (went with DVDFab Player5) and tested the Mummy Returns ISO, and it played back flawlessly. So this, to me, seems it must be an issue with CloneBD on turning it into a MKV properly. I am currently updating my nVidia graphics drivers from 390.77 to 391.24 to see if that helps CloneBD on my problem ISOs.

    Will report back when I know more.

    UPDATE:

    Updating the drivers did not work. However, I played around with CloneBD settings and found that HW Decoding was causing the artifacting problems. Currently converting to MKV using software decoding and hardware encoding. Will let you know how it goes in a couple hours!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  8. Pete

    Pete Forum Admin Staff Member

    Yes, that's essentially, what I was saying. They are investigating this.

    You should see those artefacts by just watching the movie in CloneBD's built-in player, no need to do time-consuming copies to find out.
     
  9. dbG33K

    dbG33K Member

    It looks like running CloneBD with SW Decoding and HW Encoding has solved the issue of visual artifacting and skipping, but now the resulting video file is very pale or washed out. It seems software decoding doesn't resolve HDR down to SDR very well? Or at all perhaps. Any way to fix that?
     
  10. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Retired Moderator

    As noted by @Pete , the nVidia hardware decoder was the issue so your workaround makes a great deal of sense. :) Glad it's at least temporarily sorted while they investigate and work on fixing it.

    I cannot comment on the HDR to SDR since I am avoiding that for the time being.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  11. chillr

    chillr New Member

    Not sure if this is relevant but I have to under-clock my 1080Ti both core & mem by 100MHz before using it for video encoding or I get visual artifacts / a few random white dots every 150 frames or so in the output video file.

    The under-clocking doesn't slow down the encoding in any discernible way and the fact that my 1080Ti is a bit flaky is not surprising as it spends most of the rest of its life mining crypto whilst over-clocked.
     
    dbG33K likes this.
  12. dbG33K

    dbG33K Member

    Thank you for saying this. I am in the same boat, and after turning off my GPU's overclock, I can successfully use HW acceleration for both Encoding and Decoding. Yay NO ARTIFACTING :D Thanks again!

    UPDATE: Hmm guess not all are fixed by removing the overclock. Mummy Returns and Split both still have artifacting using HW accel. :/
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  13. Reto

    Reto Elaborate Bytes AG

    That is fascinating news. I believe, we are observing two different causes for artefacting, though. I'll explain.

    We're still sifting through our own observations.
    Things you should know:

    the nVidia card has distinct units for video decoding, video encoding and CUDA.
    When transcoding, in most situations, CloneBD requires all of them.
    For example, when converting UHD to BD (HDR->SDR), the video decoder (NVDEC) converts the input stream into pictures, CUDA is used to scale them down to 1920x1080 and to do the HDR to SDR conversion, then the encoder (NVENC) creates an AVC stream.

    Now overclocking most likely affects all three units - they are likely all tied to the same base clock.
    nVidia is often used for overclocking and it is quite safe to assume, that most of the testing is done on the CUDA engine, while NVDEC/NVENC are not so much the focus, they are of no interest in gaming.

    It does make some sense to me, that overclocking can break transcoding (as to the requirement for "underclocking" - depends, some manufacturers up the base clock and sell that as the normal clock with an option to further overclock, so that may already be overclocking, I don't know).

    Now, about that.
    I think we're talking about artefacts on the one hand, and artefacts on the other.
    The ones due to overclocking may just be actual miscalculations, and obviously, that's something, we can't do anything about.

    We do know of one UHD (Terminator 2), that really causes these artefacts and a jerky playback, not because of a stressed GPU, but because the nVidia decoder doesn't appear get the frame order right.
    AVC and especially HEVC are a bit difficult in that way, because some frames are built upon previous frames and others upon future frames.
    For the decoder to be able to decode them right, they are not delivered to the decoder in playback order, but in the order that allows these dependencies to build up progressively.

    Simplified example: pictures 1, 2, 3 in display order. Picture 1 is encoded all by itself and doesn't depend on any other picture.
    Picture 2 uses information both from pictures 1 and 3 and picture 3 is based on picture 1.
    The decoder gets the pictures in order 1, 3, 2, so there's never a picture missing any information.
    The decoder then has to reorder the pictures on output.

    These dependencies are far more complex than this on actual UHDs, but it's basically the same.

    With Terminator 2, nVidia gets the ordering mostly right. From 24 frames, 16 are aligned correctly and the other 8 are more or less messed up.
    But it's not output-ordering alone, there are also these artefacts, which means that the decoder is also mixing up reference frames (using the wrong ones as base images).
    The wierd thing about it is, that the nVidia decoder actually knows the correct order. There are tags in the pictures identifying their correct order (simply numbers going from 0, 1, 2, ....23).

    The reason why I'm typing this lengthy techno-babble is, that you can understand the causes and maybe are able to tell the difference between the overclocking effect and the more systematic mess.
    Do these remaining videos show that kind of "jerkiness", as if sometimes an individual frame is not appearing at the right time? Like a steady movement of an object, that suddenly jerks back and then continues normally.
     
  14. dbG33K

    dbG33K Member

    After re-trying a few of the problem UHDs looks like removing the overclock didn't actually fix things. Turns out I had just tried it on a UHD that would've worked anyway (I am the dumb).

    I also tried return/replacing my copy of Split UHD to see if these are issues with the discs themselves. Sadly, nope, the new ISO I ripped from the replaced Split UHD had the exact same issues (artefacting and skipping, (like missing frames like Reto mentioned above)).

    Oddly the movie that ended up working regardless of GPU overclock, was the 4th Hunger Games movie. Even though the first three had issues, the 4th didn't. Kind of throws a wrench into my theory of it being and issue the studio's implementation of HDR. Does anyone else have those movies who can confirm the same issues? If so we should start a list of movies that don't mesh well with HW acceleration.

    Problem movies:
    The Mummy Returns (The Mummy Ultimate Trilogy (US)" set)
    The Hunger Games (from The Complete 4-Film Collection)
    The Hunger Games - Catching Fire
    The Hunger Game - Mockingjay Part 1
    The Bourne Identity (from the Ultimate Collection)
    - possibly the other Bourne movies from the set too. Haven't tried them yet
    Split (2016)
     
  15. Reto

    Reto Elaborate Bytes AG

    Thank you, for checking.
    It looks like we found the cause and can fix it.