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Lots of errors in output?

peer said:
About your concern with any other app accessing the drive while ripping: won't happen, ripper locks the drive for just that reason.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but it doesn't... I was able to start ripping while playing the disc with PowerDVD, then I was starting and stopping playback or was suspending and resuming ripping several times. The result was terrible - files were different to what was created for the first time when there was no (evident) interference.

I had to test it myselt before asking questions...

Meanwhile I had a look at BackupBluRay code and found a line of code where it has a bug which causes those several kilobytes of extra data at the end of decryped files. When I fixed it (by replacing "2048" with "6144") and recompiled the code, BackupBluRay started to produce files which are absolutely the same as those created by AnyDVD HD (when it is in good mood :)).

Also I found from the code that data in .m2ts files is encrypted in 6KB (6144 bytes) blocks. 6KB are 3 sectors. This means that if AnyDVD works on sector level, as you said, then to successfully decrypt a sector you have to know the content of two other sectors. Then why AnyDVD cannot work something like this:

1) It recieves a request for the content of a particular sector, and it should return a (decrypted) data for that sector.
2) It checks the cache (AnyDVD's own cache) for the decrypted data for this sector. It it finds a record for the requested sector in cache, it returns it, and that is it.
3) It not, it finds which file this sector belongs to and calculates the position of this sector in the file. This is required to figure out which 6KB block the sector belongs to.
4) It finds where are two other sectors which belong to the same encryped block and reads them.
5) It decrypts 6KB block and puts decrypted data for all 3 sectors to the cache.
6) It returns only one third of the decrypted data which corresponds to the requested sector.
7) When in some time it receives a request for one of the other 2 sectors, it doesn't have to read them again from the disc, it can take it straight from the cache. (unless they were removed from the cache already)

This algorithm does not imply that sectors are accessed in sequential order and still will return correct data whatever happens in Windows on application level.

I'm just wondering is 6KB encryption block Blu-ray specific or HDDVD works same way. I rather incline to think that it is Blu-ray specific, because why would the author of BackupBluRay divide by 2048 instead of 6144 in the first place in that line of code which has a bug. It was plobably left from his initial HDDVD code.

Please don't take an offence or something. I'm just trying to help to make AnyDVD HD better and bug-free.

Also, I'm not a specialist in the area. These are just common sense thoughts.
 
SuperGoof said:
Sorry, but it doesn't... I was able to start ripping while playing the disc with PowerDVD, ...
Click to expand...

Well, don't start ripping while playing on PowerDVD. If the disc is already in use, the ripper cannot gain exclusive access.
 
SuperGoof said:
I'm just wondering is 6KB encryption block Blu-ray specific or HDDVD works same way. I rather incline to think that it is Blu-ray specific, because why would the author of BackupBluRay divide by 2048 instead of 6144 in the first place in that line of code which has a bug. It was plobably left from his initial HDDVD code.
Click to expand...
HDDVD doesn't have the 6144 bytes stupidity. (Did I mention that Blu-ray sucks?)
 
James said:
HDDVD doesn't have the 6144 bytes stupidity. (Did I mention that Blu-ray sucks?)
Click to expand...

Yes, I checked BackupHDDVD code 5 min ago and as I thought (on a basic of the nature of bug in BackupBluRay), their data is encrypted in 2048 byte (1 sector) blocks.

There are two implications of this. One is good, and one is bad.

The good is that this whole issue is Blu-ray specific only, and I can continue copying my DVDs by using a mouse in Windows Explorer. I can also do the same with HDDVDs if I ever have them.

The bad is that for some reason you decided to take the line of least resistance when implementing Blu-ray support, basically a bit cheating :). I don't know whether it's because you do not like the format so much, or it is really difficult to do it properly from technical point of view. But it is now obvious that Blu-ray decryption algorithm used by AnyDVD HD is fundamentally flawed.

I just hope you will fix it in one of the next versions.

I do not think that the fact that Blu-ray uses 6KB blocks means that Blu-ray sucks. It is just different. 3 times bigger blocks mean there are 3 times less of them for the same amount of data. Maybe they wanted to save numbers for some reason. Or maybe 6KB blocks have some roots in Japan's digital TV standards, as the use of transport streams has.

Best Regards.
 
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SuperGoof said:
But it is now obvious that Blu-ray decryption algorithm used by AnyDVD HD is fundamentally flawed.
Click to expand...
No, it works perfectly well for *watching* discs. It works perfectly well when using the AnyDVD ripper. Unless you do stupid things it works perfectly well with Explorer, too.
 
James said:
I believe I elaborated on this often enough in this forum.
Click to expand...

I tried searching for your comments but because you've been so prolific it's hard to find the Blu-ray ones. I'd just like to know, in a nutshell, how you came to your opinion about Blu-ray.
 
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James said:
Well, don't start ripping while playing on PowerDVD. If the disc is already in use, the ripper cannot gain exclusive access.
Click to expand...

Sorry, Peer and James, that I did not believe you. AnyDVD HD ripper DOES lock the drive after all... But only in case no other program accesses it at that time. Wouldn't it make more sense though if it refused to do ripping at all if it could not lock the drive? Especially for Blu-ray discs.
 
SuperGoof said:
Sorry, Peer and James, that I did not believe you. AnyDVD HD ripper DOES lock the drive after all... But only in case no other program accesses it at that time. Wouldn't it make more sense though if it refused to do ripping at all if it could not lock the drive? Especially for Blu-ray discs.
Click to expand...

There are background tools out there that do access a drive permanently and keep the drive in an unlockable state, while still not being a threat to anydvds ripper at all. We simply can't demand a drive to be lockable, instead we do, if we can.
The present solution probably really is the best that can be achieved to make as many users happy as possible.
 
SuperGoof said:
Sorry, Peer and James, that I did not believe you. AnyDVD HD ripper DOES lock the drive after all... But only in case no other program accesses it at that time. Wouldn't it make more sense though if it refused to do ripping at all if it could not lock the drive? Especially for Blu-ray discs.
Click to expand...
I'll solve this in the long run, you will be pleased. :D
 
James said:
I'll solve this in the long run, you will be pleased. :D
Click to expand...

If you mean improving reliability of Blu-ray decrypting when multiple programs simultaneously access the disc - it would be great! Thank you!

Many thanks to you and Peer for your work on such a wonderful program AnyDVD!
 
James said:
I'll solve this in the long run, you will be pleased. :D
Click to expand...

I'm very pleased indeed now! 8)

The latest version of AnyDVD HD (6.1.5.8)) fixes this problem. I was waiting, and tesing every single new version of AnyDVD, and when today in the morning I read:

- Fix (HD DVD & Blu-ray): Multithreaded access to AACS decrypted files could
cause incorrect decryption
Click to expand...

I realised that finally the wait was over, and it was indeed the case. I downloaded 6.1.5.8, installed, and tested it. And this time everything was perfect: files copied with Windows Explorer matched those created earlier with AnyDVD ripper, and even binary comparisons performed between files on disc and those on HDD (created by ripper) gave pefect match. Even when I was running several comparisons simultaneously!

Thank you, James and Peer! Thank you, SlySoft! :clap:

P.S.: From the discussion with James and his reaction when I mentioned 6144 bytes encryption blocks in Blu-ray, I concluded that this problem only applied to Blu-ray. Why is then HD DVD is also listed to which this fix is applied?
 
SuperGoof said:
P.S.: From the discussion with James and his reaction when I mentioned 6144 bytes encryption blocks in Blu-ray, I concluded that this problem only applied to Blu-ray. Why is then HD DVD is also listed to which this fix is applied?
Click to expand...

With HD-DVD it can happen too, though with much less probability.
Small jumps back and forth in an HD-DVD stream maintain the same decryption parameters, while Blu-Ray has a constant change (each of those blocks)...
 
Hi James and Peer,

Couple of days ago I found that this problem is still there.

When I do "binary comparison" between files created by AnyDVD ripper with those on disc (with AnyDVD enabled) using a program called "Beyond Compare" in Vista, it reports that some .m2ts files are different.

For example, for "300" blu-ray it reports differences in files 00009.m2ts and 00028.m2ts, for "POTC 1" - in 00008.m2ts and 00027.m2ts, "Finding Neverland" - 00004.m2ts and 00008.m2ts

It is all very weird though. If I compare those "different" files using "010 Editor" ("Beyond Compare" cannot show actual differences in files larger than 1GB or so), it depends on parameters I choose whether it will find differences or not. If I use default parameters - it won't. If I set "Quick Match" and "Max Look-a-head" to small numbers, such as 16 - it will. But even in this case when I look at regions with differences - I could not find any. And if after such manipulations I do "binary comparison" in "Beyond Compare" again - differences suddenly disappear.

It looks like this only happens in Vista - in XP "Beyond Compare" did not find differences in those (and other) files.

So it seems AnyDVD's 'on the fly' decrypting is still less reliable than AnyDVD ripper.

I was initially using AnyDVD 6.1.6.5 when doing those comparisons, updated to 6.1.7.0 - same result. No Drag-To-Disc or similar software on that machine.

Can you please have another look at this matter.

Thanks.
 
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Interestingly, I could not reproduce this on my old laptop. Everything works as expected both in XP and Vista. "Beyond compare" does not report any differences in files at all.

I will do more experiments to try to figure out what exactly causes the problem. Will check those filters, antivirus software etc.
 
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