LG BD670 player errors on BD-R DL media

[Sabertooth]

FYI.

The latest firmware for the LG BD670 has broken playback of BD-R DL media. I sent a message to LG and they confirmed the problem and said they're working on a fix but recommend downgrading the firmware to an earlier version.

The bad firmware:

Main Ver: BD.8.97.404 <--
Servo Ver: H90377 (H09LGN)

The CMCMAG-DI6 BD-R DL media I have played fine with earlier firmware versions but error out and are ejected with this version.

 

[Roycal]

FYI.

The latest firmware for the LG BD670 has broken playback of BD-R DL media. I sent a message to LG and they confirmed the problem and said they're working on a fix but recommend downgrading the firmware to an earlier version.

The bad firmware:

Main Ver: BD.8.97.404 <--
Servo Ver: H90377 (H09LGN)

The CMCMAG-DI6 BD-R DL media I have played fine with earlier firmware versions but error out and are ejected with this version.

Thanks for that info. Are you (or LG) saying that you can reverse the firmware version? Have you tried that yourself yet? Details are appreciated.

 

[Sabertooth]

Thanks for that info. Are you (or LG) saying that you can reverse the firmware version? Have you tried that yourself yet? Details are appreciated.

You can obtain the previous firmware version on the LG website (Software Update tab) and downgrade to that version. I downloaded the firmware but haven't downgraded yet.

I didn't downgrade because I found that some of my CMCMAG DI6 BD-R DL media will play and may try to get a better handle on what's going on. I also have an MPC connected to the same TV and it has another blu-ray player installed so I'm able to fall back to it when I do need to play a problem disk.

 

[Roycal]

Bd.8.97.404

Sabertooth, That's the exact same (BD.8.97.404) firmware that is still pending on my LG BD-650 via direct internet update.

I still have BD.8.62.382 and haven't upgraded beyond that rev and have confirmed it is Cinavia free.
I am having new problems with original disks playng back on the LG BD-650, but no problem playing the AnyDVD backup copies so far. My experience is that when you have a problem with a disk even loading, it's a hardware problem (including the disk or the drive itself) and not the firmware. So I don't think my recent problems are with the firmware.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else with experience with this firmware version, i.e. if it works for them or not.
BD.8.97.404

 

[Sabertooth]

My experience is that when you have a problem with a disk even loading, it's a hardware problem (including the disk or the drive itself) and not the firmware. So I don't think my recent problems are with the firmware.

The reason I determined the firmware was at fault was that a disk that had played okay stopped playing after the firmware update. The disks I tried also played okay in 5 other players. The response from LG support seemed to support this as they said they were aware of the problem and recommended the downgrade. I didn't think it was cinavia as there was no playback at all and cinavia is encoded in the audio track.

I've been generally disappointed with the LG BD670 due to occassional stuttering during playback. What exactly sort of problems are you having?

 

[Roycal]

I agree this problem is not Cinavia related.

Recently I've had issues with my LG BD650 rejecting perfectly good disks and no firmware updates. I verified with other disks that I knew were working before so I know the player is starting to flake out. It's less than a year old too.

My first player was a Samsung BDC6900 and it only lasted about a year too. It won't play BD's at all but will play DVD's. Same issue with the LG BD-650, no problem playing DVD's but is suddenly finicky with the BD's. Sometimes have to cycle the tray several times to get a BD to play.

I'm not saying you're problem is not firmware but it could be just a coincidence that your player started flaking out at the same time you upgraded.

BTW. The problem I am having could possibly be fixed with a firmware upgrade, because once the BD loads, it usually plays flawlessly. But I am using the same firmware I've used for the last 6 months so it is a performance hardware player issue.
It's possible that LG could come up with a firmware improvement to compensate for the degradation in hardware performance.

That's why I am surprised that the latest firmware could make that problem worse. It's possible that when you contacted LG they acknowledged improving disk loading in the firmware, but that doesn't mean that's what your problem with your player was.
For them to suggest down reving to an earlier version sounds like they just wanted to get you off the phone. This version of firmware is still a current update on their website, at least it is still pending on my player.

Anyway, were you able to down rev your players firmware?

 

[Roycal]

Bd.8.97.404

Anyone else who has practical experience with this firmware version on their LG BD-6XX's feel free to comment. Does it work or not?

BD.8.97.404. There are probably millions by now.

 

[Roycal]

My opinion with the Blu ray so far is that most players are total crap and like bic lighters. They work just long enough to survive the warranty period.

The only exception to that are the Oppo leaders of the world and those who don't mind laying down 1000 USD or so.

But no kidding, my LGBD650 cost me all of 100 dollars USD including shipping and it lasted a year. Should I complain? It's confusing and annoying

 

[Sabertooth]

My opinion with the Blu ray so far is that most players are total crap and like bic lighters. They work just long enough to survive the warranty period.

The only exception to that are the Oppo leaders of the world and those who don't mind laying down 1000 USD or so.

But no kidding, my LGBD650 cost me all of 100 dollars USD including shipping and it lasted a year. Should I complain? It's confusing and annoying

The cost of repairing a $100 player makes them all throw away at that price point. And, yes, you should complain, they should last longer than a year. I also have two Sony set top players and the build quality of those is much better than the LG. It's apparent in the loading mechanism especially. The oldest Sony, a BDP-S550, is still going strong after several years in service though I recently retired it to lesser duties when I upgraded to a 3-D platform (and purchased the LG BD670).

Only time and perhaps a decent firmware update will show whether the problem is the player crapping out.

When your player rejects a disc, do you get an error and is the disk ejected from the player (the behavior I experienced)? Your problem having taken place over a longer time horizon and not involving the last firmware update could however mean that LG was responding to that on-going issue that may or may not be related to my problem.

 

[Roycal]

The problem is getting worse. What happens is after about 4 seconds of closing the disk drawer, it show's an error on the readout and TV and opens the disk drawer. If I cycle it enough times, the disk loads ok then plays flawlessly. It has the same problem with D/L or S/L BD-R and BD-ROM disks.

I just checked the LG website and even the USB firmware version is the same as the one that LG told you has an issue. So if it has a possible issue, why would they keep posting it?

I also noticed that they posted an update on the warranty. The original warranty in the box is for 1 year parts and labor and now they have changed that to 1 year parts 90 days labor. They claim it was a typo, but I have a feeling that the warranty repairs have been devasting their profits. It makes you really wonder about the quality.

I have always liked Sony too, but now with the Cinavia thing, I have been avoiding them. Does your Sony player have the Cinavia code? i.e. flags an error with Cinavia protected backups? TIA.

 

[Sabertooth]

The problem is getting worse. What happens is after about 4 seconds of closing the disk drawer, it show's an error on the readout and TV and opens the disk drawer. If I cycle it enough times, the disk loads ok then plays flawlessly. It has the same problem with D/L or S/L BD-R and BD-ROM disks.

Mine takes a little longer than 4 seconds perhaps but also errors and ejects the disk. I haven't really tried recycling the disk a few times so I'll try that and see what happens.

I just checked the LG website and even the USB firmware version is the same as the one that LG told you has an issue. So if it has a possible issue, why would they keep posting it?

Unless the problem is major they wouldn't take it down. If the problem doesn't appear to affect a lot of people (such as the % of people playing home produced BD-R media) especially, it'll get a low priority. Not to mention that the problem you describe could be called intermittent since the disk sometimes plays, making finding the problem just that much harder.

I have always liked Sony too, but now with the Cinavia thing, I have been avoiding them. Does your Sony player have the Cinavia code? i.e. flags an error with Cinavia protected backups? TIA.

I haven't tried a Cinavia infected disk lately but there hasn't been a firmware update in some time either so I tend to say that there is no Cinavia checking in either of my Sony set top players so far. I'll double check to be sure and get back to you if it's a problem now. I also have two Sony BD Burners and I don't think thay have Cinavia checking either (so far).

 

[Roycal]

LG BD650/670 firmware

Am also very interested if your LG BD670 with the latest firmware has the Cinavia code. It's not liikely you're burners are affected since so far it has only been stand alone players and the PS3.

Since I am having problems anyway, I would like to up rev the firmware to a newer rev, but don't want to risk installing Cinavia. Here's a good up to date link for Cinavia infected titles.

http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html

So do DVD's work ok on your LG? They work fine on mine. Only problem is the blu-ray's.

The short search time of the player before it errors with a BD surprises me, I am sure a better firmware version that was adaptable to changing hardware conditions could fix the problem.

But I was able to reverse the servo version from "H90372" to "H90356". The other rev number I still have that is unchanged is BD.8.62.382.E from sometime last year and Cinavia free.

It didn't help the problem with the BD play though still rejecting disks. But it is encouraging that is possible to reverse at least the "servo" version so far.

Update: Upgraded to the latest version BD.8.97.404. Servo Version H90377 (H09LGN). And still the same problem, rejects every disk 4 seconds after the disk drawer closes. The player 'searches' for about 2 seconds and then rejects the blu ray disk. I am talking about the simplest format single layer movie only BD format too. But the same problem with any Bluray disk. I.E. original BD-ROM's from the publishers don't work either. Just DVD's are still working with no problem. It's a performance shift in the hardware drive inside the LG player itself and not a disk problem.

BTW I was able to downgrade to earlier numerical versions of firmware, and the same results as far as rejecting BD's. But it is encouraging that LG allows you to downgrade firmware to earlier versions. Not all the manufacturers allow that.

But my opinion still holds that it was a coincidence that you upgraded your firmware and that was the cause of your problems. I still think it's just flaky hardware and has nothing to do with your firmware. If you recently bought this player you should return it before it's too late to get your money back

 

[Sabertooth]

Am also very interested if your LG BD670 with the latest firmware has the Cinavia code. It's not liikely you're burners are affected since so far it has only been stand alone players and the PS3.

Since I am having problems anyway, I would like to up rev the firmware to a newer rev, but don't want to risk installing Cinavia. Here's a good up to date link for Cinavia infected titles.

http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html

No Cinavia in version BD.8.97.404; Servo Version H90377 (H09LGN) of the BD670 firmware as near as I can tell. (tested on London Boulevard and The Karate Kid backups).

So do DVD's work ok on your LG? They work fine on mine. Only problem is the blu-ray's.

The short search time of the player before it errors with a BD surprises me, I am sure a better firmware version that was adaptable to changing hardware conditions could fix the problem.

All media types are playing in my unit. Initially, I though I was not able to play any CMCMAG-DI6 BD-R DL media after trying three different disks in a row that ejected but, later, I was able to play some other disks of that media so I'm not sure what the problem is with the ones that didn't play.

But I was able to reverse the servo version from "H90372" to "H90356". The other rev number I still have that is unchanged is BD.8.62.382.E from sometime last year and Cinavia free.

It didn't help the problem with the BD play though still rejecting disks. But it is encouraging that is possible to reverse at least the "servo" version so far.

Update: Upgraded to the latest version BD.8.97.404. Servo Version H90377 (H09LGN). And still the same problem, rejects every disk 4 seconds after the disk drawer closes. The player 'searches' for about 2 seconds and then rejects the blu ray disk. I am talking about the simplest format single layer movie only BD format too. But the same problem with any Bluray disk. I.E. original BD-ROM's from the publishers don't work either. Just DVD's are still working with no problem. It's a performance shift in the hardware drive inside the LG player itself and not a disk problem.

BTW I was able to downgrade to earlier numerical versions of firmware, and the same results as far as rejecting BD's. But it is encouraging that LG allows you to downgrade firmware to earlier versions. Not all the manufacturers allow that.

A change in registers (that hold initialization values) could prevent using an older firmware which doesn't handle the change (back) properly, for example. It depends on what they did in the new firmware probably more so than any desire to restrict users in my experience. They would need to re-write the older firmware which they aren't going to do.

It's probably silly of me to ask, but did you try a hard reset? I.E., pull the power for 10-30 sec. Since these players maintain the loaded software when in standby, it's possible for some weirdness to occur with new firmware. Also, if your problem is with ALL blu-rays then you have to suspect the blue-violet laser in your player. It's possible it may be obstructed so I would recommend cleaning that. Due to the tight tolerances don't use a DVD cleaning disk.

But my opinion still holds that it was a coincidence that you upgraded your firmware and that was the cause of your problems. I still think it's just flaky hardware and has nothing to do with your firmware. If you recently bought this player you should return it before it's too late to get your money back

:aiee: I hope you're wrong about the hardware! I purchased this unit for this last Xmas so the warranty should be in effect for a little while longer. I'll give it another firmware update at least.

 

[Roycal]

Glad to hear you think the player is Cinavia free. And, yes, I have done complete power downs between upgrades. I actually keep my whole system on a power strip and power it down at night to save electricity.

At first I thought the blue laser was failing too, but the fact that it does play if cycled enough times, shows me that the laser is ok. Once the disk loads, I can play the whole movie without a skip, switch around in menus, etc. with no problem. Also, I have run a wind vortex style cleaning disk to blow off the laser to no avail. (Maxell "Blu-Ray" Lens cleaner; turns out it's really a DVD but has two small holes in the disk that are supposed to blow off the laser diode).

Since your player works sometimes and doesn't other times, it souds very similair to my problem only in an earlier stage of failure.

Don't wait too long for a firmware version to come out to fix the problem. The warranty is only for 90 days on labor and I have a feeling it may be some kind of mechanical alignment adjustment so it may just be a labor charge after 90 days. My advice is if you have to send it back, try to get a refund and go with another brand. If you find anything else on the internet (i.e. a simple mechanical adjustment fix) let me know and I will also let you know if I figure anything out. Good luck.

PS I noticed that if I power down completely with a BD disk in the drive and power back up, I get the "home" screen and it doesn't even see the disk. Does your's do that too when it's flaking out? TIA

 

[Roycal]

A change in registers (that hold initialization values) could prevent using an older firmware which doesn't handle the change (back) properly, for example. It depends on what they did in the new firmware probably more so than any desire to restrict users in my experience. They would need to re-write the older firmware which they aren't going to do.

I know that most computers and most firmware based equipment won't let you down rev the firmware version at the consumer level access, so I was really surprised that it did work with the LG BD650. The firmware hacks I've seen for the PS3 to flush Cinavia included a rev number that was one LSD higher than the last installed version, but still lower than the normal OEM uprev increments, so they get around the uprev requirement in the boot strap ROM that way.

But are you implying that if I down rev the firmware on the LG to an older version that it may not really be that version due to some code that may still exist from a newer version?

As a programmer with firmware experience, I would consider that incredibly poor programming practices and would only frustrate their own people trying to figure out what code is actually installed on a particular machine (i.e. if the rev numbers are not corresponding to the actual code). But I guess anything is possible even if it doesn't make sense.

I still don't believe that the newest LG firmware is causing a loading problem because if it was they would have fixed it by now. As far as I can tell, this is the same version they've been posting online for the last 3 months or so. Often the people who answer the service calls, are prone to claim anything without any real knowledge. Especially if the company is contracting out to a call service. It's possible that since you suggested the firmware was a problem, the guy just agreed with you. If it means it delays your sending back an RMA, then that's one of their goals. But I still think it's most likely just a coincidence.

I still think that a firmware improvement that addressed this problem could fix it and hoping for that since I'm out of warranty anyway. But do suggest you send your's back at least 8 weeks before the warranty runs out if it still has problems. Actually, I would recommend sending it back as soon as possible in case you have further problems and they don't want to extend the warranty.

PS I am noticing that with my symptoms, it rejects a BD-R backed up copy within about 4 seconds and with a BD-ROM type original manufactured blu-ray title, it takes about 20 seconds before it rejects it. But once it loads, it plays perfectly; either type of BD. I can pause, rewind, select different chapters and titles with no problems after it finally loads.

 

[Roycal]

Lg bd650/670

Just as a follow up, the firmware versions for the LG BD650 have the same file name for different versions. I.E. "LG_BD_6100B33.ROM" is the same file name that has not changed for several revs of different firmware. I have the different released versions by date in seperate directories and just noticed that its the same file name for most of them even though they are different revs.

Talk about increasing the confusion.

But since I know this player is Cinavia free and down rev'able, If I can find another one for 60 bucks and it lasts another year, I might go for it.

 

[Sabertooth]

But are you implying that if I down rev the firmware on the LG to an older version that it may not really be that version due to some code that may still exist from a newer version?

No, not code differences but differences in the location/format/type of variables that don't get changed/cleared by the older firmware update when rolling back. I.E., going forward, new firmware clears or overwrites that area and sets up the new area but the older firmware might not clear that area on rolling back due to past versions all using the same data so you end up with bad data there but only on rolling back. I'm not suggesting that's what happens but just saying that could be a possibile reason for no roll back possible without a rewrite of the firmware.

Often the people who answer the service calls, are prone to claim anything without any real knowledge.

Often times they work from a book of pre-prepared responses especially the lower level support. There's no real thought involved. I admit that could be possible.

 

[Roycal]

No, not code differences but differences in the location/format/type of variables that don't get changed/cleared by the older firmware update when rolling back. I.E., going forward, new firmware clears or overwrites that area and sets up the new area but the older firmware might not clear that area on rolling back due to past versions all using the same data so you end up with bad data there but only on rolling back. I'm not suggesting that's what happens but just saying that could be a possibile reason for no roll back possible without a rewrite of the firmware.

Oh, ok, I think I understand what you are saying. Still sounds like poor programming practice if a firmware version doesn't include all the data accurate for that version. i.e. an older version of firmware should still write to every area of the firmware EEPROM with accurate data that is relevant to that version. the LG firmware is complete.

But, I do not believe this disk rejection problem has anything to do with latest firmware version for the LG BD-650/670. Which was your your original premise.

In other words, "Dont be conned to wait for some "future firmware " solution before you send it back "