Legal Service

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by mabachko, Jan 1, 2008.

  1. mabachko

    mabachko Member

    Can you legally offer the "Back-up" service for those that have a legally purchased DVD without them sending the actual DVD, ie if I have a legally purchased DVD in my collection.
  2. RedFox 1

    RedFox 1 Super Moderator

    No, you have the right to backup 1 copy of the DVD you own. What you choose to do is your business, but legally in the USA you may not profit from this. Let others know about AnyDVD and let them backup their own legally purchased DVDs.
  3. lostinlodos

    lostinlodos Well-Known Member

    It's not as clear cut as you (or others) may think.
    As per the various copyright and distribution laws, AND industry service regulations AND the DMCA and the legal rulings in induvidual states striking down the DMCA....

    As a buyer:
    You have the right to "safeguard a product you own"
    You have the right to "protect your investment"

    You have the right, under the Distribution of Rental Materials act to watch an item (VHS/LD/VCD) you have legally rented (the act does not cover DVDs, so it's a craps-shoot in the courts to this day), and to use reasonable means to enable the watching of such rental items.

    For the time being; you have the right to make an informed decision of intentions to purchase an item of dispensable media (used to justify downloads for x number of hours), which has been both struck down and upheld in different cases

    You have the right to guarantee compatibility with your [system] if your purchased item claimed to be compatibility (ie the DVD symbol or the DVD term on a box) and you made a "reasonable" assumption of compatibility : and to enforce said compatibility on [said system] if through "no fault of your own" your disc is not compatible with your [player]. (Has been both upheld and struck down as for a legal use of "DVD Decrypter, al).

    As for a backup service, first of all you MUST have at the very least a state business licence (easy to get and often free) to legally make a backup of anything. Rules vary from state to state.

    You have the right as a business/service provider to conduct the process of making a 1:1 copy, OR an "improved quality" copy of any media if:
    You have "reasonably assessed" the legal right of the product owner to make such a backup on their own,
    AND you can "reasonably deduce that the owner could not make" such a backup on their own
    AND that the owner "is the legal and rightful owner" of that particular item
    OR that that owner is the "First owner of a [particular] media" item.

    Confused yet?
    In short: the burden of proof of legality of the owner holding an original and true copy falls on you, for 30-365 days depending on the state. So YES you COULD make a backup for someone without receiving the original if both you and the holder have the EXACT same disc (as I've posted before, there are varying versions of media even from different STORES), and even then you're still taking a gamble. You're best asking to have the original sent to you and copying that.

    :note: I'm not an licensed attorney, I only have a legal practitioners' licence. If you plan to do this; I'd suggest you hire an ATTORNEY to discuss the various legal ins and outs of the system as it stands, and as it changes. You can usually get one for a decent rate by going to a major university and talking to a Law Professor. They could refer you to recent students, and tend to only point you to the better ones to protect the school's reputation. Fresh law grads tend to have lower fees for school-based referrals.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2008
  4. mabachko

    mabachko Member

    Thanks to all for your response.
    As I have people ask me (quite often) to back up there originals and make the comment that it is twice the the shipping cost to ship both ways. I thought why not try to cut shipping in half since I usually have the movie on hand. ( I have a large collection of movies). However the note of 1:1 back up makes sense, as well as same version may be legal.
    1:1 Back up would not allow me to back up any other then my own (1 Back-Up, from my DVD) & would need the requesters original.
    I would hope that persons seeking a back up of there DVD would be able to verify that they own an original by purchasing. (If a statement was on the purchase page or in several places, pages to eliminate my responsiblility of verifying).
    It sounds like, although my intentions are good, legal counsel should be in place prior to posting the service on my website.

    Thanks Again.
    I will read & reply to other reponses that apply
    Thank You
  5. lostinlodos

    lostinlodos Well-Known Member

    One thing to be clear on is there IS NO WAY to eliminate your responsibility for verifying the owner has the original. If a studio ever came after you, you would have to furnish proof that the owner had an original. The best way to do that is what Wolf Camera started doing after they were fined in 2005, film the removal of the disc being removed from the mail, with the address clearly visible. And keep those recordings for at least one year. I believe that's the longest requirement in the US. You're subject to the laws of the state that you sent the video TO as well as those of your own state.
    A good attorney would be able to skirt past the removal of copy protections and such, or mastering error protections, on the "improved" regulation amendments, but there's no way past the did-not-have-original issue. Some services (like you find on eBay and's own service) require you buy the film from them, or provide a clear and descriptive receipt from a licensed original retailer. Having them send you an ORIGINAL receipt would probably protect you... but again, ask a real attorney.
  6. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member

    I am no lawyer so take what I have to say or not but the way I see it is you are asking the wrong people here as none of us are lawyers. lostinlodos has given you the best advise though get the original from the other party or do as Slyfox_1 said and introduce them to anydvd and clonedvd2 etc....
  7. mabachko

    mabachko Member

    Again Thanks.
    I just wanted to provide a service to those that do not have the time to do the back up themselves. But I guess the legallity of the service would cost more than than the product is worth. This was a general question,,, wondering if it had been asked, answered,. I didn't expect an attorney to give me free advice, or ruffle any feathers. I have used Any DVD for a few years now & enjoy my movies as well as figuring the best way to back up my DVD's & thought I could provide a legal service. at a low cost.
  8. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't do this for anyone.
  9. rkr1958

    rkr1958 Member

    I think the term they use is "Social Engineering"; but, if you started such a service I'd be afraid that the MPAA (and RIAA for music CDs) would be quick to use such a technique and put you out of business. Their resources are practically unlimited and they appear to have no qualms about suppressing legitimate fair use.