Keep Protection w/ BD ISOs

[Babirusa]

ugh second disc now, initial protected UHD copy rip got slowww at times but made it first try.... except then using that as source for an unprotected rip gave a slew of sector errors so another bad disc from same set.... and now a third (this one was almost good, didn't even slow much during copy, just a few sectors in one spot, so far all the discs go wonky a little or a lot right around half-way point, and one also in an earlier spot)

 

[testiles]

So it seems some sort of errors can potentially get through when ripping with AnyDVDHD and it seems that somehow they can make the image file itself somehow have bad sectors.

I'm not surprised by that.

Are you able to successfully play the first rip all the way through?

But it also seems that using the original protected rip image as a source might be a good idea, since then when you go to make the unprotected using it as a source it seems to do sort of a double check to some degree on it and can maybe find an error that initially made it through.

If you just rip each UHD once each way from disc you might end up with two equally bad rips neither given a second verification at all.

I guess I don't follow the logic in this yet.

If you use the first rip to make the second and the first is bad, you have two unusable rips.

If you make two rips directly from the disc using different optical drives then you may also have two unusable rips but there's a better chance that one of them came out ok.

I've seen this a lot with my drives at least because one of my drives may have problems with a particular disc whereas another does not.

The worse that happens is you have two unusable rips because neither optical drive could successfully read it -- which is no worse than doing it the other way.

But potentially better.



T

 

[Babirusa]

I'm not surprised by that.

Are you able to successfully play the first rip all the way through?

didn't try that, but it has enough bad sectors showing that I bet it will glitch some
the disc itself played directly bogs down to 2fps or even total freezing

I guess I don't follow the logic in this yet.

If you use the first rip to make the second and the first is bad, you have two unusable rips.

If you make two rips directly from the disc using different optical drives then you may also have two unusable rips but there's a better chance that one of them came out ok.

I've seen this a lot with my drives at least because one of my drives may have problems with a particular disc whereas another does not.

The worse that happens is you have two unusable rips because neither optical drive could successfully read it -- which is no worse than doing it the other way.

But potentially better.


T

what I mean is that it sort of gives you a sanity check on the rip
since the rip completed I figured it was OK
but then when I went to make an unproctected rip from that protected rip it came up with all sorts of errors and that clued me in that the first rip, even though it didn't toss up any errors during the rip and had seemed OK, was actually bad

if all I did was rip it twice, once each way with a different drive, I bet I'd have two bad rips and no clue

I may go back and do a quick unprotected rip of all the protected blu-ray rips I've made as a check to see if they can all pass that (and, in this case, delete each unprotected rip afterwards, don't have space for all, only keeping the unprotected second copy for UHD since that relies on online protection database)

 

[SamuriHL]

You're ripping this with the AnyDVD Ripper? And you're telling us that a rip made with that was reported as successful off the disc, but a subsequent attempt to mount the ISO and create a new unprotected ISO (also using AnyDVD Ripper?) threw errors? I just want to make sure I'm following correctly.

EDIT: Also could you throw an AnyDVD log up for that original disc please?

 

[testiles]

the disc itself played directly bogs down to 2fps or even total freezing

Wait, the disc itself won't even play without freezing?

Ok, then this comes under the category of Garbage In, Garbage Out.

I didn't say before, because I thought it goes without saying, that the first step I do before anything is make sure the original disc reads properly.

Really no point in even trying to make a backup of an ill-playing disc!

what I mean is that it sort of gives you a sanity check on the rip

My check for each completed rip is see if it plays the very beginning, towards the middle and the end of the movie, then check a few extras.

If all that works fine, I assume it's probably a-ok.

if all I did was rip it twice, once each way with a different drive, I bet I'd have two bad rips and no clue

That's very likely since the original disc doesn't play properly.



T

 

[Babirusa]

You're ripping this with the AnyDVD Ripper? And you're telling us that a rip made with that was reported as successful off the disc, but a subsequent attempt to mount the ISO and create a new unprotected ISO (also using AnyDVD Ripper?) threw errors? I just want to make sure I'm following correctly.

EDIT: Also could you throw an AnyDVD log up for that original disc please?

Yeah that is what is so weird.
I can rip these discs with no errors (a few of them took a few tries to get a no errors tossed rip to succeed) but then I mount the protected UHD rip stored on the HD and use that as a source to try to create an unprotected UHD rip on the HD and then it tosses up sector errors!? Yeah using ANYDVDHD ripper both times.

I'm pretty surprised that it can somehow create a rip without tossing an error but then somehow the file on the hard drive has sector errors, seems very strange. (I'm not sure what sort of checksum system these discs use, but this seems kind of odd almost no matter what the story would be.)
I'll put up some logs tomorrow.

These are from SKywalker Box Set. TPM was a real mess of many, many sector errors tossed upon trying to make the unprotected from the protected rip. Same for AOTC. Both of them slowed quite a bit when making the original rips (And each took at least two tries.). ROTS rip attempt failed first time but appeared to go fast and smoothly the second time but even that when used as the sourced ended up tossing I think it was one set of sector errors when trying to make the unprotected. ANH failed the first time, but got it to work seemingly well the second time and this time, unlike with ROTS, the unprotected rip was made without tossing any errors. ESB failed the first time, but the second time seemed to go pretty smoothly and yet when making the unprotected from it still tossed a couple sector errors. Haven't gotten to trying the UHDs for the rest of the set yet.

 

[Babirusa]

Wait, the disc itself won't even play without freezing?

Ok, then this comes under the category of Garbage In, Garbage Out.

I didn't say before, because I thought it goes without saying, that the first step I do before anything is make sure the original disc reads properly.

Really no point in even trying to make a backup of an ill-playing disc!

All the same after some struggles they all manage to end up ripping without errors so it's weird that then using those somehow sector errors got reported.
Only some of the discs totally bog down into a total mess during playback, the others would be harder to catch would have to watch from start to finish (and I have a feeling one or two of them would probably not do more than a momentary glitch or two).

My check for each completed rip is see if it plays the very beginning, towards the middle and the end of the movie, then check a few extras.

If all that works fine, I assume it's probably a-ok.

pretty sure that would fail for a couple of my discs here

Anyway this is weird stuff, have only just begun ripping stuff to HDs and haven't done a ton of UHDs yet, but this is the first time I've seen this happen. It will be interesting to see when I go back and try this on the BDs if any end up failing in this weird way.

 

[Babirusa]

May or may not be relevant but I think these are the first UHD I've ripped with AnyDVD HD 8.5.0.0 version.

 

[Thomas Q]

if you need large drives, i would go with these:
https://www.seagate.com/products/enterprise-drives/exos-x/
they are enterprise grade, not SMR and at least where I live, cheaper then the ironwolf pro or WD RED Pro.
the only downside: they don't support SMART and IronWolf Health Test.

 

[SamuriHL]

Yeah that is what is so weird.
I can rip these discs with no errors (a few of them took a few tries to get a no errors tossed rip to succeed) but then I mount the protected UHD rip stored on the HD and use that as a source to try to create an unprotected UHD rip on the HD and then it tosses up sector errors!? Yeah using ANYDVDHD ripper both times.

I'm pretty surprised that it can somehow create a rip without tossing an error but then somehow the file on the hard drive has sector errors, seems very strange. (I'm not sure what sort of checksum system these discs use, but this seems kind of odd almost no matter what the story would be.)
I'll put up some logs tomorrow.

These are from SKywalker Box Set. TPM was a real mess of many, many sector errors tossed upon trying to make the unprotected from the protected rip. Same for AOTC. Both of them slowed quite a bit when making the original rips (And each took at least two tries.). ROTS rip attempt failed first time but appeared to go fast and smoothly the second time but even that when used as the sourced ended up tossing I think it was one set of sector errors when trying to make the unprotected. ANH failed the first time, but got it to work seemingly well the second time and this time, unlike with ROTS, the unprotected rip was made without tossing any errors. ESB failed the first time, but the second time seemed to go pretty smoothly and yet when making the unprotected from it still tossed a couple sector errors. Haven't gotten to trying the UHDs for the rest of the set yet.

I definitely want to see the log. Then maybe we can get @James involved because this absolutely SHOULD NOT be happening at all. There are checks that AnyDVD performs while ripping to ensure that the data being read is correct.

 

[Babirusa]

I tried it from scratch again with TPM and the same thing. It went slowly at times, but it made it through and said it created a protected ISO without tossing up any errors, but then when I use that protected ISO rip as the source to make an unprotected rip it comes up with sector errors.

I've attached first here the log file from the actual UHD disc itself:

 

[Babirusa]

and here is the log file from the mounted protected ISO file on the HD:

 

[Babirusa]

Same thing happens with AOTC, ROTS and ESB from the set.
Can get the others to work.

 

[SamuriHL]

@James You may want to take a look at this because this shouldn't happen.

 

[Babirusa]

any update on what might have been happening?

 

[James]

I definitely want to see the log. Then maybe we can get @James involved because this absolutely SHOULD NOT be happening at all. There are checks that AnyDVD performs while ripping to ensure that the data being read is correct.

AnyDVD can only check for integrity when creating unprotected images. @Babirusa you should remove ArcSoft afc.sys from your lower filters.

 

[SamuriHL]

AnyDVD can only check for integrity when creating unprotected images. @Babirusa you should remove ArcSoft afc.sys from your lower filters.

Ah, yea that makes sense. It has no visibility into the files until protection is stripped. Good times.

 

[Hoth80]

After losing many backup due to bad RAM causing file corruption on NAS system, (replaced with ECC RAM and tested to ensure error-free) I have taken to the following to ensure proper backup:

1) Rip protected image
2) Eject and reload (for AnyDVD to rescan)
3) Rip protected image again
4) Verify hash match
5) Save hash for future
6) Use Teracopy for transfer to NAS. (Is replacement file transfer program that verifies hash, is how discovered RAM on NAS was bad when many hash check fails on transferring).

I do this way because if rip to unprotected image result in different hash every time eject disc or rip in second drive. If rip to protected image, same hash even if AnyDVD reload or rip in different drive.

I have currently backed up (again) about 50 of my UHD collection. 2 of them needed third rip because hash mismatch between first two files. This is 3.5 TB of data over many days, enough to be sure no problem with hardware, most likely random bit flip in memory (rip system is separate from NAS, not ECC memory, though maybe change in the future). Research says memory bit flip will happen every few days but not problem unless saving large data to disk that I am doing.

 

[SamuriHL]

You need to understand something. Mounting the protected image and allowing AnyDVD to decrypt it CAN verify the hash on each m2ts file. So it can tell that the image is good or bad once it's able to decrypt.