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Is the Cinavia fix a stolen solution?

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Actually stealed is wrong too ;-) should be (matching sentence structure) 'stole'.

Now on topic, can't say I'm surprised by that move of them lol. There's a new low. This is slysoft here, not general's dvdfab were talking about. Slysoft stole the tech? If that were the case it wouldn't have taken them so long to publish it or embed it into anydvd.

The nerve those guys have.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 7 met Tapatalk
 
SlySoft to the best of my knowledge has not stolen anything.
 
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Fengtao's stuff and dvdranger are two companies that I would never want to be installed on my machines.

Their quality compared to Slysoft speaks for itself.
 
calcu007 said:
The people at dvdranger(Cinexhd) are claiming that CloneBD developer stealed and use their cinavia solution. Clearly they dont mention slysoft and clonebd names but is not necessary.

http://www.cinexhd.com/bd-cloning-software-the-success-of-stolen-technology/
Click to expand...

This goes to show you how scared they are...they talk about free market development but when someone beats them to the punch they cry fowl. Alot of cry babies and nothing to show for it. If it wasn't for Elbyte and Slysoft those companies wouldn't have ever started. They should be grateful Slysoft stuck it long and hard even with all the Studios attacks and Lawyering. For the competitors to do such tactics this means they are loosing the battle and how nothing to really show for it - that's their problem. Lack of real development in their software.

My ADVICE...dvdranger...make a better product and you will get them coming...do nothing better and you loose plain and simple as that. The product should be able to stand on it's own and show users how good it is not slandering another company just to makes frivolous claims.
 
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As someone in another forum put it, this is done everyday in corporate business, when a developer comes up with a new solution, the other guy who is going to go down the drain has to make up a story. This type of behavior is not even worth talking about, its ludicrous. Do you realize that that other program needs AnyDVDHD just to work at all? I find this sad and not worthy of discussion but feel free if it makes everyone happy.:disagree:
 
calcu007 said:
The people at dvdranger(Cinexhd) are claiming that CloneBD developer stealed and use their cinavia solution. Clearly they dont mention slysoft and clonebd names but is not necessary.

http://www.cinexhd.com/bd-cloning-software-the-success-of-stolen-technology/
Click to expand...

If Mr. Foerster believes that SlySoft infringes his copyright, he should contact us (which he did not). We honor open source code licenses and take such things quite seriously.

I tried to find the open source code which we are accused of stealing, just to understand what he is talking about, but it looks like he deleted it in 2014:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/bdnextcopy/

So I can't compare it to the code we are using.

That's all I can do at the moment regarding this matter.

And this thread should be moved to AnyDVD HD, as CloneBD contains no Cinavia removal code. Not from Mr Foerster or anybody else. ;)
 
James said:
If Mr. Foerster believes that SlySoft infringes his copyright, he should contact us (which he did not). We honor open source code licenses and take such things quite seriously.

I tried to find the open source code which we are accused of stealing, just to understand what he is talking about, but it looks like he deleted it in 2014:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/bdnextcopy/

So I can't compare it to the code we are using.

That's all I can do at the moment regarding this matter.

And this thread should be moved to AnyDVD HD, as CloneBD contains no Cinavia removal code. Not from Mr Foerster or anybody else. ;)
Click to expand...

I think they mean their early solution cinexhd, when it was released as open source, not ther BDnext copy project.
 
Now the problem with that accusation, is that that so called open source solution repo has been pulled offline a long time ago. Which on its own is in vioation of the GPL. You can't claim IP and stolen code when you don't provide the things needed to verify the accusation. I already thought they had hit rockbottom, but apparently they found a new low.
 
calcu007 said:
I think they mean their early solution cinexhd, when it was released as open source, not ther BDnext copy project.
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe he means the original cinex (without hd), which when I first tried it sounded like a speaker in a butthole, so I completely ignored it.

Mr. Foerster usually puts something "open source" for whatever reason (Because it is hip? To put the guys from DVDNextCopy under pressure?), and then pulling it away again. He has done this with DVDto5 and BDNextCopy. He should make up his mind, either releasing something open source and including licensing terms or not. I have no idea, if his CineEx source was included in BDNextCopy source tree or not. Hard to tell now.

Anyway, he should talk to us and simply tell us what he wants.

Until then I'm moving on, I have better things to do.
 
It is possible that as studios place cinavia on BD and DVD releases to prevent track replacement, DVDRanger is getting nervous about where they are going to get their overlay soundtracks.
 
Funny that in the beginning, CinEx's own white paper argued they didn't have to support lossless audio because Cinavia messed it up too badly. Now, they're attacking SlySoft & Elby for downmixing to AC3; yet I find nothing to indicate CinEx supports lossless output itself, even in its "HD" product. It's been made clear here why lossless audio can't be supported right now: There are no open-source encoders for TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, and raw multichannel LPCM takes up too much space. (I've argued for DTS support myself, but that's strictly about what many believe is better lossy output.)

Also, their blog post uses the necessary steps for properly removing Cinavia, as has been discussed endlessly here (including by myself) for years -- decode audio, remove watermark from LPCM stream, re-encode audio -- to suggest that CloneBD, not AnyDVD HD, actually removes the watermark. Of course, we know it was implemented as a cooperative process: CloneBD does the decoding & re-encoding, but the watermark removal code is in AnyDVD HD. I'm sure this was done for legal reasons, since Elby is subject to a DMCA-like legal regime in Switzerland (unlike SlySoft in Antigua).

And if any actual open-source code was used, SlySoft & Elby know how to handle it; CloneBD & CloneDVD mobile both disclose their use of open-source code explicitly, while ReClock is itself an open-source project. I certainly believe James' denial more than anything CinEx says.

CinEx may be fearful not only of lost sales (and Hollywood closing off access to Cinavia-free audio for its database), but also of possible legal attacks that could shut it down. It claimed when it finally launched (edit: after legal action by Sony that it failed to disclose) that German law did not treat Cinavia as encryption, but that has always sounded questionable to me. Cinavia isn't the same kind of cryptography as AACS, etc.; but it uses steganography, which is a form of cryptography. Elby was founded in Germany, but moved to Switzerland way back when it still owned CloneCD specifically to avoid Germany's DMCA-like laws. (When Switzerland passed its own DMCA-like laws, it sold the questionable programs to SlySoft.) I suspect CinEx is vulnerable to the right legal attack, much as DVDFab was; SlySoft & Elby are far better protected legally, with Elby sticking to non-cryptography code (plausible deniability, anyone?) while SlySoft's cryptography is protected by Antiguan law.

Bottom line: CinEx should be thankful that for now, its Cinavia solution still appears to work better than SlySoft's (though I can't say from personal experience). I'm sure that will change, however...
 
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RBBrittain said:
Funny that in the beginning, CinEx's own white paper argued they didn't have to support lossless audio because Cinavia messed it up too badly. Now, they're attacking SlySoft & Elby for downmixing to AC3; yet I find nothing to indicate CinEx supports lossless output itself, even in its "HD" product. It's been made clear here why lossless audio can't be supported right now: There are no open-source encoders for TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, and raw multichannel LPCM takes up too much space. (I've argued for DTS support myself, but that's strictly about what many believe is better lossy output.)

Also, their blog post uses the necessary steps for properly removing Cinavia, as has been discussed endlessly here (including by myself) for years -- decode audio, remove watermark from LPCM stream, re-encode audio -- to suggest that CloneBD, not AnyDVD HD, actually removes the watermark. Of course, we know it was implemented as a cooperative process: CloneBD does the decoding & re-encoding, but the watermark removal code is in AnyDVD HD. I'm sure this was done for legal reasons, since Elby is subject to a DMCA-like legal regime in Switzerland (unlike SlySoft in Antigua).

And if any actual open-source code was used, SlySoft & Elby know how to handle it; CloneBD & CloneDVD mobile both disclose their use of open-source code explicitly, while ReClock is itself an open-source project. I certainly believe James' denial more than anything CinEx says.

CinEx may be fearful not only of lost sales (and Hollywood closing off access to Cinavia-free audio for its database), but also of possible legal attacks that could shut it down. It claimed when it finally launched (edit: after legal action by Sony that it failed to disclose) that German law did not treat Cinavia as encryption, but that has always sounded questionable to me. Cinavia isn't the same kind of cryptography as AACS, etc.; but it uses steganography, which is a form of cryptography. Elby was founded in Germany, but moved to Switzerland way back when it still owned CloneCD specifically to avoid Germany's DMCA-like laws. (When Switzerland passed its own DMCA-like laws, it sold the questionable programs to SlySoft.) I suspect CinEx is vulnerable to the right legal attack, much as DVDFab was; SlySoft & Elby are far better protected legally, with Elby sticking to non-cryptography code (plausible deniability, anyone?) while SlySoft's cryptography is protected by Antiguan law.

Bottom line: CinEx should be thankful that for now, its Cinavia solution still appears to work better than SlySoft's (though I can't say from personal experience). I'm sure that will change, however...
Click to expand...

Solid reasoning, RBBrittain, in all of this CinEx/Elby/Slysoft stuff and a very solid post.

Cheers.

:clap:
 
This is interesting. Cinex is (indirectly) claiming that Slysoft "stole" source code through open source avenues but are not actually using that software themselves in their product? They post this as a news feature on their website without even trying to contact Slysoft first or have the balls to mention their name?

It really makes one wonder what the true motivations are here and makes the credibility of all their claims questionable.
 
goncal said:
It is possible that as studios place cinavia on BD and DVD releases to prevent track replacement, DVDRanger is getting nervous about where they are going to get their overlay soundtracks.
Click to expand...

As I understand how their CinexHD data base works, they replace the audio track from a database of Cinavia free tracks. That solution may "work better" but it is completely illegal everywhere since it involves transferring copyrighted content. It's no different from downloading any copyrighted work.
I doubt if they will last very long anywhere with that biz model. It's also a risk to the subscriber every time they download an audio file even if they don't know that.
 
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I am not sure this is true. Perhaps they have taken a delta from the differences between infected and clean audio. I don't think this falls under copyright.
 
What DVD X Ranger company doesn't tell you.

I have AnyDVD HD (lifetime licesens), CloneDVD2 (lifetime licesens), CloneBD (lifetime licesens), Nero Burning ROM 10 Ultra (lifetime licesens), PowerDVD 14 Ultra (lifetime licesens) and yes for over a year now I have DVD X Ranger (lifetime licesens). I've tested before and after Cinavia removal of a protected bluray. Yes it works fine as they claim. BUT.....every movie that has Cinavia you have to login into there website and download the cinavia removal file for each Cinavia protected movie ranging from each file size 70MB to 120MB. They have about 185 movies supported (right now, there always adding new movies) so that's a 185 files to download which there download server is fast (I'm on 5MB up/30MB down hardwired cable, with a Download Acclerator Pro). But here it what the company isn't telling you. When you make a Cinavia free bluray you have to make it where the bluray has no menu's or anything of that. It strictly must be this way in order to remove Cinavia so you put the bluray disc in and it goes to play the movie right away.

I'm hoping AnyDVD HD working along side with CloneBD doesn't do it this way as DVD X Ranger does. Couple questions slysoft. Will AnyDVD HD in the future coming Cinavia removal have to work like DVD X Ranger does as I listed above with each cinavia protected movie needs file for it to remove it? And will a final result of AnyDVD HD working a long side CloneBD have full menu's and everything included as the orginal bluray movie disc had when removing Cinavia? Thanks
 
mike_r said:
I am not sure this is true. Perhaps they have taken a delta from the differences between infected and clean audio. I don't think this falls under copyright.
Click to expand...
I've always said that was the way to isolate the watermark, i.e. compare the non-Cinavia with the Cinavia, not sure if that's what they have achieved but it is the best solution.
It still requires a re-encode to mask out the watermark though. Still end up with AC3 audio in the end even doing it that way.

I just question the general motivation of the vehement rant about Slysoft "stealing" source code and what that is all about.
 
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