HD-DVD/Blu-ray war end ??

[Charlie]

I figured this was going to happen that HD-DVD were going to attack BD on downloaded material instead after the loss.

HD-DVD Death Made Official. Downloads To Kill Blu-Ray Next.
By Rob Beschizza EmailFebruary 16, 2008 | 7:12:06 PMCategories: High Def

Toshiba put HD-DVD out of its misery today. Reuters confirmed this afternoon that it will cease manufacturing HD-DVD equipment, following earlier reports from Japan's NHK public broadcasting network.

This leaves Blu-Ray as the presumptive victor in the irrelevant optical disk format war. It now must face up to the real competition: the continuing success of DVD and the growing popularity of downloads, both on the internet and on-demand cable TV.

The end comes only a day after Wal-Mart announced it would no longer carry HD-DVD stuff. This will go a long way to confirming the view, long-held by cynics, that the mega-retailer always held the executioner's axe to begin with, and was merely waiting until it was clear which format's camp had the most densely-stuffed brown envelopes to throw at Hollywood.

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/02/hd-dvd-death-ma.html

 

[coodbe]

I have been one of the ones waiting on the sidelines for one or the other to win. My current high definition television only has component input and is six years old, RCA F38310YX5. It is a tube television. I just purchased a Panasonic DMR-EZ27. It has n HDMI and component output and upconverts to 480P. My old Toshiba player had a hard drive but it would not longer track properly.

I was hoping that by the time the RCA dies or the picture gets too faded, the high definition format ware would be over. It looks like that has happened. I was just at Blockbuster on this past Tuesday and they only have two copies of the newer releases of Blue Ray. There has not been much demand. The televisions that I have been looking at for the last several months are 1080p plasmas and a few LCD. The ones I am interested in cost between $3,000 and $4,000 and are 50" displays.

I have a 622 and 722 high definition DVR from Dish Network. Broadcast High Definition definitely beats standard definition but there is little difference between broadcast High Definition 1080i and the 480P my Pansonic puts out.
I imagine a 1080P Blue Ray on one of these new televisions may make a bigger difference. But is it a big enough difference to win the public over?

I have been experimenting with making anamorphic 480P DVDs (on the new Panasonic) from the S output of the 622 and 722. I am making them from the 1080i broadcasts. The quality is very good. It rivals the purchased or rented DVDs.

 

[Hawk]

Wal Mart has also dump HD-DVD and know carry blu-ray disc. Another nail for HD dvd.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23186582

Here is Story in case link doesn't work

NEW YORK - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. has decided to exclusively sell high-definition DVDs in the Blu-ray format, dealing what could be a crippling blow to the rival HD DVD technology backed by Toshiba Corp.

The move by the world's largest retailer, announced on Friday, caps a disappointing week for HD DVD supporters, who also saw consumer electronics chain Best Buy and online video rental company Netflix defect to the Blu-ray camp.

In a statement on its Web site, Wal-Mart said that over the next few months it will phase out sales of HD DVD systems and discs. By June, it will sell only products in the Blu-ray format which was developed by Sony Corp.

"We've listened to our customers, who are showing a clear preference toward Blu-ray products and movies with their purchases," said Gary Severson, a Wal-Mart senior vice president.

The move affects 4,000 Wal-Mart and Sam's Club stores in the United States, as well as related online sites. The stores will continue to sell traditional DVD players and movies.

The so-called format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray has been a thorn in the side of retailers, which have had to commit shelf space to devices from both camps even as they field complaints from frustrated and confused customers.

Next-generation DVDs and players, boasting better picture quality and more capacity, were expected to help revive the $24 billion global home DVD market. But Hollywood studios had initially split their alliances between the two camps, meaning only certain films would play on a consumer's DVD machine.

Like the Betamax-VHS battle in the 1980s, having two DVD standards has dampened sales of both and put retailers in a conundrum of having to either choose sides or sell products that have a chance of becoming obsolete very quickly.

The balance of power, however, tipped toward the Sony camp in January after Time Warner Inc.'s Warner Bros. studio said it would only release high-definition DVDs in Blu-ray format. With that, studios behind some three-quarters of DVDs are backing Blu-ray, although some release in both formats.

Blu-ray also has support from News Corp.'s 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney Co. and Lions Gate Entertainment Corp. Sony's PlayStation 3 game console can also play Blu-ray films.

"So if you bought the HD player like me, I'd retire it to the bedroom, kid's playroom, or give it to your parents to play their John Wayne standard def movies, and make space for a BD player for your awesome Hi Def experience," Wal-Mart's movie and gaming blogger, Susan Chronister, wrote in a posting.

To be sure, Toshiba has secured agreements with studios including NBC Universal's Universal Pictures, Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc.

Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360 also currently works only with HD DVD. However, Microsoft said in January it could consider supporting Blu-ray technology at consumers' behest.

(MSNBC.com is a Microsoft-NBC Universal joint venture.)

Toshiba could not be reached to comment on Wal-Mart's move.
Earlier on Friday, the Hollywood Reporter quoted unidentified industry sources as saying Toshiba was widely expected to pull the plug on HD DVD in the coming weeks.

Toshiba spokeswoman Junko Furuta said none of what was reported in the magazine had been decided. She declined to comment further, saying: "We cannot comment on speculation."

By Franklin Paul

 

[eclipse98]

I figured this was going to happen that HD-DVD were going to attack BD on downloaded material instead after the loss.

HD-DVD Death Made Official. Downloads To Kill Blu-Ray Next.
By Rob Beschizza EmailFebruary 16, 2008 | 7:12:06 PMCategories: High Def

Wow, I'm still surprised how quickly this HD DVD card house has collapsed :doh:

Downloads to kill BD ? Unless they can come out with some reasonable alternative to their draconian DRM schemes where I can't do anything with my legally purchased downloaded copy of the movie, highly unlikely. Or do they mean torrent downloads

 

[SamuriHL]

Wow, I'm still surprised how quickly this HD DVD card house has collapsed :doh:

Downloads to kill BD ? Unless they can come out with some reasonable alternative to their draconian DRM schemes where I can't do anything with my legally purchased downloaded copy of the movie, highly unlikely. Or do they mean torrent downloads

I'm going to give my opinion on the whole downloading vs disc ownership thing. It's ****ing bull****! Look, until I can download the 25-50 *GIGS* worth of data found on a typical BD, there is NO WAY IN HELL downloading is going to replace disc ownership for me. Not to mention storage. Where am I going to put it, on a hard drive? With DRM that makes BD look like a wide open format? Yea, no thanks. The downloads I've seen on my Xbox 360 are ok quality given what they are, but, you're talking 4-5 gigs for 720p quality. That doesn't exactly kill BD. No, people who keep saying downloading is the future need to wake up to the fact that until every house is wired with 100mbps fiber connections and multi-terabyte hard drives that it just ain't happening.

 

[Clams]

I think the future (other than downloading) could come in the form of ultra cheap flash memory. Imagine getting your new HD movie on a little 30gb flash-drive? That improvement would be more like the VHS to DVD migration. Aside from being much smaller, you don't thave to worry about scratching your flash-drive. And think of what it'll mean to the rental industry. When the life cycle of a film is over - they can just re-program the rentals with a new flick. And the industry as a whole would never have to "discount dump" used or over-stock movies.

Were I in charge of things... I'd be looking that way.

-W

 

[Webslinger]

I think the future (other than downloading)

I really feel that this is what Microsoft is going to be pushing hard; I don't feel Microsoft cared much about pushing HD-DVD, despite offering HD-DVD X-box drives (Microsoft has tons of resources and could have pushed HD-DVD a lot harder than it did). A lot of places already offer downloads (as rentals). Obviously the potential for increased and varying DRM exists via digital download content. All hail our Sony and Microsoft overlords!

Does any company care that consumers may want to backup their purchases? I would be more willing to support Blu-ray if they got rid of all the DRM crap and finalized a standard (PS3 lacks internal audio decoding that I want; and all other existing Blu-ray standalone players are not worth buying if you want features that HD-DVD standalone players already support or can support via firmware upgrades).

 

[scmeis1]

The only thing I really care about is picture quality. HD-DVD was by far better on that front. I have to believe, that Blu-Ray with all their security, takes away from the picture quality. Now with the HD-DVD camp jumping ship, I wonder how much longer players such as, PowerDVD will support it?

 

[Webslinger]

The only thing I really care about is picture quality. HD-DVD was by far better on that front.

No. In theory, Blu-ray due to its increased disc capacity should allow for better picture quality. And sometimes that is the case. But, more often, in practice, Blu-ray and HD-DVDs are often exactly the same with respect to PQ. Pan's Labyrinth is a funny example in Region 1: both HD-DVD and Blu-ray versions are exactly the same, but the HD-DVD version offers web-enabled content. So, in this example, the HD-DVD release is superior. Theoretically, this should never happen. The lack of standardization (the HD-DVD standard was finalized a long time ago; the same is not true for Blu-ray) has really hamstrung Blu-ray releases and standalone player development.

I have to believe, that Blu-Ray with all their security, takes away from the picture quality.

No. The extra security just annoys intelligent consumers, which is why Blu-ray is not a smart choice for those that are interested in Fair Use Rights. The extra DRM on Blu-ray is more appealing to studios (which are not interested at all in Fair Use Rights nor the consumer).

Apparently region coding, mandatory AACS (not good for small independent studios that have are now forced to pay for AACS), more DRM, and an unpolished standard (that forces non-PS3 owners to upgrade their standalone Blu-ray players if they want support for features that most HD-DVD players already have or can be updated via firmware to support) is what the major studios want. As a consumer, is that what you want? I don't.

 

[Charlie]

With BD+ more less having DRM in it does this mean that AnyDVD will now start attacking DRM altogether or just that on BD Discs?

 

[Webslinger]

With BD+ more less having DRM in it does this mean that AnyDVD will now start attacking DRM altogether or just that on BD Discs?

peer has written on Doom9 that BD+ is about a couple weeks away from being completely broken, but I have no idea what Slysoft plans in the future.

 

[Clams]

AnyDVD has always been the attacker and lead foe of DRM - that's what it does by design. Currently the "hot" DRM issue is BD+ is all.

-W

 

[Clams]

The only thing I really care about is picture quality. HD-DVD was by far better on that front. I have to believe, that Blu-Ray with all their security, takes away from the picture quality. Now with the HD-DVD camp jumping ship, I wonder how much longer players such as, PowerDVD will support it?

Picture quality is a function of the transfer quality - not the format. Consumers need to be astute and demand good hi-def tranfers if they are gonna pay more for hi-def - or rebuy existing titles again in hi-def.

-W

 

[ron spencer]

Reuters: HD DVD to wind down

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1643184420080216

By Mayumi Negishi and Kentaro Hamada

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) is planning to give up on its HD DVD format for high definition DVDs, conceding defeat to the competing Blu-Ray technology backed by Sony Corp (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research), a company source said on Saturday.

The move will likely put an end to a battle that has gone on for several years between consortiums led by Toshiba and Sony vying to set the standard for the next-generation DVD and compatible video equipment.

The format war, often compared to the Betamax-VHS battle in the 1980s, has confused consumers unsure of which DVD or player to buy, slowing the development what is expected to be a multibillion dollar high definition DVD industry.

Toshiba's cause has suffered several setbacks in recent weeks including Friday's announcement by U.S. retailing giant Wal-Mart Stores Inc (WMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research) that it would abandon the HD DVD format and only stock its shelves with Blu-ray movies.

A source at Toshiba confirmed an earlier report by public broadcaster NHK that it was getting ready to pull the plug.

"We have entered the final stage of planning to make our exit from the next generation DVD business," said the source, who asked not to be identified. He added that an official announcement could come as early as next week.

No one answered the phone at Toshiba's public relations office in Tokyo.

NHK said Toshiba would suffer losses running to tens of billions of yen (hundreds of millions of dollars) to scrap production of HD DVD players and recorders and other steps to withdraw from the business.

Hollywood studios had initially split their alliances between the two camps, meaning only certain films would play on any one DVD machine.

The balance of power tipped decisively toward the Sony camp in January after Time Warner Inc's (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Warner Bros studio said it would only release high-definition DVDs in Blu-ray format. With that, studios behind some three-quarters of DVDs are backing Blu-ray, although some release in both formats.

Toshiba responded by slashing prices of HD DVD players, but the loss of retail support has hurt.

In addition to Wal-Mart, consumer electronics chain Best Buy Co Inc (BBY.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and online video rental company Netflix Inc (NFLX.O: Quote, Profile, Research) also recently signed up to the Blu-ray camp.

The exclusive backing of Microsoft Corp (MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) was also put in doubt when the software giant said in January that it could consider supporting Blu-ray technology for its Xbox 360 video game machine, which currently works only with HD DVD.

Sony has spent large sums of money to promote Blu-ray in tandem with its flat screen TVs and its PlayStation 3 game console, which can play Blu-ray movies.

The Toshiba source said the experience would not be a total loss for the sprawling conglomerate, whose products range from refrigerators to power plants, which would learn valuable lessons.

"Marketing was a weak point for Toshiba. We learned a lot from HD DVD. Strengthening marketing will continue to be an issue for us going forward," the source said.

(Reporting by Mayumi Negishi, Kentaro Hamada and Nathan Layne, editing by Mike Peacock)

 

[Clams]

Three.....

-W

 

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1643184420080216

Which has already been posted here: http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=13653. I'm a bit surprised you missed the existing thread.

Threads merged. oliceman:

 

[coodbe]

I'm going to give my opinion on the whole downloading vs disc ownership thing. It's ****ing bull****! Look, until I can download the 25-50 *GIGS* worth of data found on a typical BD, there is NO WAY IN HELL downloading is going to replace disc ownership for me. Not to mention storage. Where am I going to put it, on a hard drive? With DRM that makes BD look like a wide open format? Yea, no thanks. The downloads I've seen on my Xbox 360 are ok quality given what they are, but, you're talking 4-5 gigs for 720p quality. That doesn't exactly kill BD. No, people who keep saying downloading is the future need to wake up to the fact that until every house is wired with 100mbps fiber connections and multi-terabyte hard drives that it just ain't happening.

I have a 750GB hard drive married to my 722 DishNetwork DVR. The DVR is connected to the INTERNET for eventual video streaming. I am recording 1080i to the DVR and to the Western Digital "MyBook". I can fill as many Hard drives as I want. However the maximum that the specs in a hard drive are 750 gigs although some have had success with a terabyte hard drive. The only problem is that the video cannot be played or downloaded to anything but that DVR. I don't think this is the future. I prefer disc ownership and backing them up as well. But it serves as a good addition to disc ownership. I can record anamorphic, 720p to DVD's either from the hard drive of the DVR or directly from the live output from the "S"out.

I am not sure if any of the purchased downloads on the INTERNET can be transfered to DVD to keep. Check this Divix link for downloading high definition to DVD. I am not condoning file sharing. I just noticed that on the site. I just wanted to point out the Divix format. I think their are legal ways to purchase Divix video for download. You just need a DVD player that plays Divix.

http://optimum.infospace.com/_1_JU5...=DivX+Movies&ex=&u=http://www.divxmovies.com/

 

[Clams]

I don't think HD-DVD's stand a great chance of becoming "it".
I think downloads, "on demand" cable, and flash media will be the future of HD. However I predict the SD-DVD will have a good lifespan yet because of existing penitration.

-W

 

[seeya]

No. In theory, Blu-ray due to its increased disc capacity should allow for better picture quality. And sometimes that is the case. But, more often, in practice, Blu-ray and HD-DVDs are often exactly the same with respect to PQ. Pan's Labyrinth is a funny example in Region 1: both HD-DVD and Blu-ray versions are exactly the same, but the HD-DVD version offers web-enabled content. So, in this example, the HD-DVD release is superior.

Pan's Labyrinth is a very good study case cause there are lots of different encodings out there. Here they are in order of quality:

(1) UK Blu-Ray (VC-1, 28769 kbps)
(2) French HD DVD (VC-1, 20254 kbps)
(3) SkyHD broadcast (h264, ca. 19000 kbps)
(4) German Blu-Ray (h264, 28860 kbps)
(5) USA Blu-Ray & HD DVD (VC-1)

The UK Blu-Ray wins thanks to the higher bitrate. The average bitrate used for the UK Blu-Ray video stream alone is almost as high as the max average bitrate allowed for HD DVD for both audio and video combined. The French HD DVD is quite nice, though, too.

 

[SamuriHL]

I have a 750GB hard drive married to my 722 DishNetwork DVR. The DVR is connected to the INTERNET for eventual video streaming. I am recording 1080i to the DVR and to the Western Digital "MyBook". I can fill as many Hard drives as I want. However the maximum that the specs in a hard drive are 750 gigs although some have had success with a terabyte hard drive. The only problem is that the video cannot be played or downloaded to anything but that DVR. I don't think this is the future. I prefer disc ownership and backing them up as well. But it serves as a good addition to disc ownership. I can record anamorphic, 720p to DVD's either from the hard drive of the DVR or directly from the live output from the "S"out.

Certainly there are places for streaming technology. Rentals, for instance, I have no real problem with. And recorded tv I do every single day. (It's the reason I have 2 HTPC's that are both capable of HD video capture from our cable system) However, for movies that I want to own that I know I'll watch more than once, I want a disc based solution simply so I can get higher bit rates and hopefully higher quality. 720p is not going to cut it for me.

I am not sure if any of the purchased downloads on the INTERNET can be transfered to DVD to keep. Check this Divix link for downloading high definition to DVD. I am not condoning file sharing. I just noticed that on the site. I just wanted to point out the Divix format. I think their are legal ways to purchase Divix video for download. You just need a DVD player that plays Divix.

http://optimum.infospace.com/_1_JU5...=DivX+Movies&ex=&u=http://www.divxmovies.com/

I use the Divx format to backup my recorded tv. They recently added a 720p profile. For tv content, this is fine for me. It allows me to stick a bunch of episodes in fairly decent quality on one DVD for storage. However, I would not be buying movies in the format. The quality is not good enough.