Forcing Subtitles through BR ISO Format

[SirGCal]

OK, I've searched and searched and I can't for the life of me figure out how to do this...
I've been trying to shrink my ISOs for my BR movies on my server. Some like Avatar are extremely complicated, some should be simple. Right now I'm trying to figure out the simple ones. For example, Star Trek - The Motion Picture. Simple format, it has a specific PSG track for the forced subtitles. How in the heck can I force the ISO to load that track by default when playing the disk...?

I tried BDedit and I can not find any options to force a specific subtitle track... Though that software is quite a bit cryptic so maybe I just haven't found it. I can make the basic ISO any number of ways but...

I have tons of BRs and 12 TB of storage. Still I can't load them all. Saving 5-20G per movie is absolutely worth it. I have some just pulled down to .m2ts files but I'm missing the forced subtitles (and PDVD 10 even won't let you select subtitle tracks from the .m2ts, and making an iso out of it, I still have to select a track. And I still have no solution for Avatar type movies yet...).

Any help? I'm guessing it has to do (at least for those with a special track for forced titles) with the .mpls file but...

EDIT: To clarify many confusions: I'm ideally looking for a tool which lets me DIRECTLY edit the bdmv/mpls files to configure them up properly. NOT some do-it-all tool. OR also useful would be what-is-where and then I can hex-edit the file or what not. Ideally, that's what I'm looking for. Or a tool that will setup only those files... I don't want it to remaster or mux or anything else. I have the file structure and all of the original files. I just want to know how to edit these files to make them dance to my tune.

 

[mike_r]

Use Clown_BD it does it all for you.

 

[SirGCal]

Use Clown_BD it does it all for you.

Clown BD takes three hours or more to do what should take 15 minutes... Plus, it's not forcing the subtitles I want either. Plus, per the author, it's no longer supported/updated...

 

[Adbear]

If it takes 3 hours then you're doing something wrong, and it does keep the forced subtitles, I've already tried it with Avatar so I know it works, but you have to play back forced subs using a full disc structure.

 

[SirGCal]

Clown_BD does eac3to, tsmuxer, etc. when all I want is the iso tweaks. Clown does take forever and a day... I don't need eac3to for some like Star Trek (1) which has the forced titles alone in it's own PSG stream. I can pull the .m2ts off in < 10 minutes, even removing the extra languages... All I need is the proper ISO setup. There has to be something that happens to the .mpls or index files in the ISO format to force the use of subtitle track X as default... THAT is what I'm looking for. I want to know what file, how and what... Not 'just use this tool'. And I don't use unsupported software anyhow cause eventually it won't work anymore...

As you can see from my first post, I'm looking for the answer to the first part of the question. Not the Avatar problem (unless someone has a better option other than just 'use brand-x...'). I want some software that does proper and direct editing of the mpls and/or index files in such a way that I can force a subtitle track.

 

[PrincipalityFusion]

All I need is the proper ISO setup.

That's not all you need. The ISO format is only a file container. It has nothing to do with the structure that you're trying to play back. You ARE going to need extra tools to get you what you want which is to play back the movie with the subtitles you want.

There has to be something that happens to the .mpls or index files in the ISO format to force the use of subtitle track X as default... THAT is what I'm looking for.

There is.....It's called the Bluray structure. And you'll need that to be able to play back the forced cation pgs subtitle file. While you can strip of the appropriate m2ts file in less than 10 minutes, the m2ts file is only a container and doesn't handle subtitle playback. You will HAVE to create a bluray structure for that.

Fine, if you don't want to use ClownBD, then use Tsmuxer Gui directly. ClownBD uses Tsmuxer also. Tsmuxer will strip away the stuff you don't want and keep the stuff you do. It will then create a bluray structure around that.

Use the tsmuxer output and Imageburn to create an ISO file. It's really that easy.

 

[SirGCal]

Apparently, no one is reading properly what I'm writing or no one is understanding my question... Let me try to make this stupid-proof and fix this confusion...

I DO make the BluRay structured ISOs... With the playlist, stream, bdmv, certificate, etc. folders and index and movieobject bdmv files and mpls and m2ts files and all that goodness...

I even use TXMuxer now and then to do this. However it still won't force a subtitle play. I've tried numerous ways to get Star Trek (1) to work as expected and the proper subtitle track is never on by default. And it is the extremely simple (all forced subtitles in one pgs track) method. I can make the iso, load it up, software 'loads bluray disk information' but never selects the subtitle track by default. I can select the subtitle track manually (couldn't do this without the proper bluray structure) but it won't load automatically.

It works on the original ISO so something has to be being pulled out. Clown does too much extra stuff with eac3to that I don't want and takes for freaking ever. Plus simply, it's no longer updated/supported (because cloneBD was supposed to be release from what I heard.. but...).

All I want is to edit the mpls or bdmv files or what ever it is that tells the player to use X tract by default. Obviously something in this structure has to tell it to play this m2ts file with this video tract and this audio tract and this subtitle tract... I want to edit that. Directly if possible. Once I have the proper file edited for the proper structure, then I will have the proper ISO setup, which in the end IS all I need.

I can sort-a do the same thing right now by simply taking out the non-movie m2ts files from the original and re-saving the ISO, but that's not much faster than the clown method. And you still have to deal with menus and all that without the content being there...

And, honestly, I used clown on ST(1) a week ago and it did NOT do it properly... Yes, it worked on Avatar.. sorta... but it failed on Star Trek 1 to lock in the proper psg... So did the iso direct from TXMuser for that matter. Neither one would default to force the subtitle track on. I find some options that 'sorta' work by moving the pgs you want to the top but... There has to be a more intelligent way to do this...

I want to edit the bdmv's directly, and/or the mpls's.. With force track options. BDedit is the closest thing I can find but as formentioned, it doesn't have this option either (as well as being quite criptic in it's own right).

 

[PrincipalityFusion]

I'll try to give you assistance, but i would like to make 2 points first.

1) When you say things like this

Let me try to make this stupid-proof and fix this confusion

, you imply that people are stupid. That might be true sometimes, but on this forum those are the same people you are asking help from. It doesn't help you make your case very well

2) What's with this "i don't use it because it's not supported" crap. DVDShrink hasn't been supported in years, yet it was recently the only program i could find to do what i was wanting to do. You use a program for what it can do for you now, not what it might be able to do in the future. If ClownBD works now, it doesn't matter that it may no longer work 1 year from now. If it works for you now, use it. It's that simple.

Now, having ranted, i think i can help you. For sake of argument, we'll say that ClownBD isn't working. Okay, you have other alternatives. Personally, I use a program called MultiAVCHD. It has an option you check to force the first subtitle track on playback. You can try that and see if it works for you. The only warning i have is that it uses the same programs that ClownBD uses (eac3to, etc) but unless you set it to do an encode, it should not take 3 hours to do a simple rip. On my system, it takes around 15 to 35 minutes depending on how big the bluray is. You'll also need to download 3 programs (ffdshow, AVSynth, and Hali Media Splitter). The program relies on these 3 programs but doesn't install them for you.

I also created a post a while back on how to get forced subs working on titles like "2012". It's not totally 100% your situation, but you might find it useful
http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=257857&postcount=11

 

[Adbear]

I've had no issue with Avatar, 2012, Star Trek and a whole host of other films that have forced subtitles using Clown BD, normally takes about 40-50 mins depending on the film to end up with a folder I can then play back in TMT3, and the forced subtitles work.. You do have to load the full original ripped folder or disc into Clown BD otherwise it doesn't know which tracks are supposed to be forced.
Another way to do it is to use BD rebuilder. You tell it you want to make a movie only and set the disc size to custom, make the custom size bigger than the original disc size then remove the audio/subtitle tracks you don't want. It will then build a new disc without having to re-encode as the disc space allotted is more than the disc space needed

 

[SirGCal]

I'll try to give you assistance, but i would like to make 2 points first.

1) When you say things like this , you imply that people are stupid. That might be true sometimes, but on this forum those are the same people you are asking help from. It doesn't help you make your case very well

The whole point was I was trying to give full detail so the previous posts like you mentioned. If you assumed I was calling you stupid, that's your own fault. I was not, would not. I was trying to make my post's understanding stupid-proof. If that comment offended you, well...

2) What's with this "i don't use it because it's not supported" crap. DVDShrink hasn't been supported in years, yet it was recently the only program i could find to do what i was wanting to do. You use a program for what it can do for you now, not what it might be able to do in the future. If ClownBD works now, it doesn't matter that it may no longer work 1 year from now. If it works for you now, use it. It's that simple.

I haven't used DVD Shrink in many many many years... And I don't use software which the developer dumps and no longer cares about. Simple as that. But still, clown doesn't do what I'm wanting to do which you again seem to be missing...

Now, having ranted, i think i can help you. For sake of argument, we'll say that ClownBD isn't working. Okay, you have other alternatives. Personally, I use a program called MultiAVCHD. It has an option you check to force the first subtitle track on playback. You can try that and see if it works for you. The only warning i have is that it uses the same programs that ClownBD uses (eac3to, etc) but unless you set it to do an encode, it should not take 3 hours to do a simple rip. On my system, it takes around 15 to 35 minutes depending on how big the bluray is. You'll also need to download 3 programs (ffdshow, AVSynth, and Hali Media Splitter). The program relies on these 3 programs but doesn't install them for you.

I've tried multiAVCHD. Didn't care for it at all. Even more cryptic than clown and even less powerful with, as you mention, more reliance on more things I just don't need or want. All I want to do is edit those two simple files (bdmv, mpls) directly... You've yet to show me anything that does this.

I also created a post a while back on how to get forced subs working on titles like "2012". It's not totally 100% your situation, but you might find it useful
http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=257857&postcount=11

Seen these, seen the options and methods for doing it with .mkv containers... etc.. I'd rather keep iso containers for my blurays as I have so many and I like symmetry.


Again, and hopefully for the last time. I'm not looking for something to do everything for me. I'm looking for a program that will let me edit these files directly. (or even just a 'what to look for to get it to do this' and I'll hex-edit them myself). I'm starting with all pure BluRay disks (I don't steal) so I'm always starting with the full package. I just want them all on my central file-server so I can stream them throughout the house. And my current test for this is ST(1) and getting it isolated into ISO (in br format) and editing the bdmv/mpls files so that it auto-loads just the subtitle tract I want.

I can make the file structure and copy over the necessary .m2ts directly from the original in literally seconds (5-10 minutes if I'm doing it from disk and not from a master iso image I've already stored). It should be as simple as tweaking these remaining bdmv/mpls files to instruct it how to fire off when it loads the Bluray structure but BDedit (the closest item I've found so far) even can't seem (or I haven't figured out how) to do it.

So everyone telling me to use clown... stop. Please. You're missing my entire question. Yes I know it's there. I WANT to know better how to do it DIRECTLY and more-so manually. I don't want to have some software hold my hand as much as I want to do it myself and understand the full internal structure even if possible. Because if I can do that, I can do these in seconds/minutes, not hours or even half hours... Plus then I can make them better and more globally portable, not just happy with one player or one setup or one codec or... whatever. You're missing my point about my question. It's not just the subtitles. It's just for this example, I want to know how to DIRECTLY edit the necessary files to make it point to such. So ya, I guess I do need to help make it a bit more stupid-proof still as everyone seem to be missing my question entirely.

 

[SirGCal]

I've had no issue with Avatar, 2012, Star Trek and a whole host of other films that have forced subtitles using Clown BD, normally takes about 40-50 mins depending on the film to end up with a folder I can then play back in TMT3, and the forced subtitles work.. You do have to load the full original ripped folder or disc into Clown BD otherwise it doesn't know which tracks are supposed to be forced.
Another way to do it is to use BD rebuilder. You tell it you want to make a movie only and set the disc size to custom, make the custom size bigger than the original disc size then remove the audio/subtitle tracks you don't want. It will then build a new disc without having to re-encode as the disc space allotted is more than the disc space needed

BD Rebuilder is a newer one to me. I'll check it out. Doesn't sound like it's going to do exactly what I'm after but... I'll try anything once. Thanks.

 

[Adbear]

Both BD rebuilder and CLown BD do exactly what you want, Movie only ISO's with forced subtitles on. Clown BD has worked every time for me on the movies you reference

 

[mike_r]

Plus, per the author, it's no longer supported/updated...

It's not updated as it does exactly what it should do, if it's not supported then why would I bother to 'support' you.

The short answer is you can't do what you want just by using tsMuxeR.

The long answer is if you demux out the PGS stream (using either tsMuxeR or eac3to) then you can pass the PGS stream through BDSup2Sup extracting only the images with attribute forced=y. After this you need to remux the audio, video and all PGS streams back together as a Blu-Ray structure. using BDEdit you need to set the command to enable PGS stream X (which is the forced dialogue). You can use this tool to do it, or even a hex editor. After this use IMGBurn to create an ISO.

Alternatively you can do it all with Clown_BD which is essentially a GUI for the above workflow.

 

[SirGCal]

Both BD rebuilder and CLown BD do exactly what you want, Movie only ISO's with forced subtitles on. Clown BD has worked every time for me on the movies you reference

No. Again, read exactly what I'm looking for... You're missing the point. I've tried to explain it... I'm not sure how else to...

It's not updated as it does exactly what it should do, if it's not supported then why would I bother to 'support' you.

The short answer is you can't do what you want just by using tsMuxeR.

The long answer is if you demux out the PGS stream (using either tsMuxeR or eac3to) then you can pass the PGS stream through BDSup2Sup extracting only the images with attribute forced=y. After this you need to remux the audio, video and all PGS streams back together as a Blu-Ray structure. using BDEdit you need to set the command to enable PGS stream X (which is the forced dialogue). You can use this tool to do it, or even a hex editor. After this use IMGBurn to create an ISO.

Alternatively you can do it all with Clown_BD which is essentially a GUI for the above workflow.

I never said/wanted only to use a muxer. I just don't always want some program to do everything in it's own way. I think you do however understand what I'm after. I do like Clown (more on that later) but everyone just wanted to scream "use clown" and not actually answer my real question...

I've used BDedit as I mentioned before but must have missed this command you speak of. I'll have another look... I'm also very happy to do it with hex editors but I need to know the layout of the file and so far haven't had much luck looking for the hex information of bdmv or mpls files with any simple descriptions.

I like clown, don't get me wrong. I do once in a while still use it for multi-part m2ts stuff sometimes (though actually it's simple just to keep them multi-part when you're making the iso anyhow). It's just so slow for what I most of the time am doing... Perhaps I haven't found a way to skip the stuff I don't want/need it to do and it's already there but... I don't want to remix any audio, change any video, etc. Most of the time (accept obviously with the occasional need to use BDsub2sub or something) I just want to take the complete original m2ts file and mpls file and stick it in it's own iso... I personally would like a 'just port this mpls and create the bdmv files' option without all of the re-re-encoding and what not. It just takes forever... And my system is quite healthy, with multiple storage sources to lower IO effects (not reading/writing from the same drives at a given step for example) that isn't the issue.

Actually, while talking about Clown, I'd also like to have it auto-clean after itself. I might use it more then. Having to go all over to clean up after it annoys me. And another option to have it ignore if a directory isn't empty or 'erase before start' or something... And not to store the temp files or store them somewhere else. I even have many different actual HDDs to help reduce IO bottle-necking to speed it up but it still crawls (relatively speaking). And another small item, 'Step 3' doesn't have the option of saying 'force this subtitle always start by default' in blu-ray mode which is where I might expect it so I can choose which one I want to have enabled automatically by default.

If I could perhaps have it skip eac3to unless necessary, and muxer, and just make the proper drive structure and necessary files for the options selected; or even just the option to 'force this subtitle to load by default' in bluray mode, I might use it a lot more often truly. I don't always want to force just FORCED subtitles. I sometimes want to force a specific subtitle track to always start by default (many foreign language films I have for example, I need English subtitles on by default). I also help a deaf neighbor with some of her stuff (she thinks this is just fascinating) and do some for her now and then and he obviously needs the full-English turned on by default (yes you have the 'force subtitle' box on Step 1 but it doesn't always pick the right one and then you have to shuffle them around or what not which just gets more confusing.)

It's a great and beautiful piece of software that is very powerful and relatively simple to use, and I used to use it a lot more often, but when I hear the programmer say he's done working on it and there will be no more changes... It really makes me wary is all. Plus, part of me just want's to know the dirty details so that WHEN a disk breaks the norm, I can find a way to force it to bend it to my will... and do it all much faster...

If you have any links about the HEX information for those files, I'd love to take a look-see. What is where, what triggers what, etc. Or if you are still willing to make some tiny tweaks to clown, I could offer up a detailed list of a few simple suggestions that many people might find useful... If you wanted. I had it at one point but then notice you said you were done with it so I stopped. Many were just what I said above. Cleanup pieces, skip this or that pieces... A full-quiet mode (no java window at the top), perhaps affinity selections if you wanted to get a bit trickier, etc. I'll probably be one of the first in line to buy CloneBD when ever they finish it... But... I still think this has some features that clone might not... But we'll have to wait and see...

Sorry if I hit a nerve; I didn't mean to. I do like your software. Just thought it still had so much untapped potential and polish and actually, was a bit disappointed when I heard it was no longer updated (sorry, I guess that is different then 'supported'. Apologies for that. My bad.).

As for the 'Correct BD' tool, I'll give it a look-see. Thank you very much.

 

[PrincipalityFusion]

Well, it's a shame that BDEdit is out of the question because it does exactly what you want (edit the index, plalist, clipinf, etc). Alot of the programs that have that functionality use command line BDEdit to parse out the original structure and also make a new BD structure.

And eac3to doesn't encode anything. It parses out the components of the bluray. BDHDStreamExtractor uses eac3to to display what the bluray structure is made of. So just about any of the free tools out there that you might use will probably use eac3to in some way.

So if what you want is a tool that will show you the innards of those files, BDEdit is it. You would definitely have an easier time figuring that out than figuring out how to apply a general hex tool to those files. Doom9 has a link with alot of helpful post http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=125903

My suggestion would be to sign up over there so you can asks questions about how to properly edit those files. The authors of alot of those tools spend time on that forum and would offer some good help.

Just a note of caution. The guys/gals over there are VERY knowledgeable about what they are talking about. You go over there telling people that they don't understand what you are saying and they are going to tell you to go f#$k yourself really quickly. I would recommend a little humility as you are the one trying to learn.

 

[SirGCal]

Well, it's a shame that BDEdit is out of the question because it does exactly what you want (edit the index, plalist, clipinf, etc).

??? I don't know what you're talking about... I have never said BDedit was out of the question. That was a really bad assumption on your part... I mentioned quite a few times that I use it, and in multiple posts. Why would you even assume it is out of the question...?!? Furthermore, I've also added requests now and again in the past through the official website (pel.hu).

And eac3to doesn't encode anything. It parses out the components of the bluray.

Sorry, that is also incorrect... eac3to does a LOT of stuff, including but obviously not limited to, re-encoding audio tracks. It can encode from/to DTS, AAC, AC3, FLAC, WAV, PCM, RAW, etc.

Infact that's about all I ever really used it for in the past before there were fully HD audio capable players. I used it to re-encode the TrueHD or DTS-HD tracks into more conventional standard AC3 5.1 channel tracks. It did that very nice and fast. But other than that and getting a quick what's what in the playlist, I didn't find it overly useful over other options that were available, but it's a nice command line option.

 

[jedisinclair]

Hey PrincipalityFusion

I found an easier way to do forced subtitles on movie-only backups. I'm not sure if it works on every movie, but so far, it worked on 2012 and Avatar. All you have to do is rip the iso with anydvd HD. Then run BD Rebuilder. In the BD Rebuilder settings, check ONLY English (eng) subtitles and UNCHECK "keep only one subtitle for each language". Seems too easy, but it worked !!!

I stumbled onto one more thing, taking this process one step further... in movies like Gran Torino, Kill Bill, Iron Man. When you use BD Rebuilder, (with the settings listed above), hit the little + next to subtitles on the main screen of the program, you'll have 2 or 3 English subtitles, RIGHT-click on the bottom one and choose "turn on" ... voila! The forced subtitle will now display by default when you play the movie.