Discussion in 'ReClock' started by Charlie, Mar 7, 2007.

  1. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member

    Thought I'd take the inititive to post and see how many users are willing to pay for this service if slsoft team was to make a product since Vista doesn't and we can assume that it won't ever allow us to use this.

    I for one would pay for it.

    Anyone else willing to pay slysoft for this?
  2. oldjoe

    oldjoe Well-Known Member

    Not I. I don't have, and don't intend to use Vista, for anything more gaining the technical knowledge to service my customers who were unfortunate to have purchased a PC with Vista loaded onto it. I have replaced Vista with XP for several customers and I am expecting that number to increase significantly in the very near future.
  3. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Let's rephrase it: Would you pay for a commercial "ReClock" which works better than the free ReClock on XP?
  4. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member

    Thanks James for reclarifying it and I still say yes. :D
  5. khlb

    khlb Well-Known Member

    Actually I’m puzzled. Do I need ReClock? :confused:

    Obviously, living in a PAL–corner of the world. I have tried to look up information on ReCLock’s forums. If I understand this correctly – ReClock resynchronizes the audio-part with the video stream when watching PAL-encoded movies, Right?
    Well I have watched several DVD’s both on a computer and streamed to a TV-set. I fail to notice any discrepancy, audio or visuals.
    Obviously I lack the necessary hardware – eyes and ears! :eek:

    Conclusion: No this software is not for me.
  6. Charlie

    Charlie Well-Known Member

    I too only thought this effected the PAL region but James pointed out that it isn't just PAL. That's why I thought this thread deserved to be looked at and see the responses as allot of users were not happy about the reclock not in Vista and in the powerdvd ultra as well so in hope this would spark up a poll so to speak and let the slysoft team see if there would be a demand to put together such a project.
  7. Peer

    Peer Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Well, James explained that to me a while ago (ok, actually he explained it to me several times by now :)), and he'd be better in explaining this, but I'll give it a try (after all, I'm more the crypto-guy, and James is the video genius).
    It's a bit of a mind-twister...

    There is no re-synchronizing being done - the audio and video already has to be synchronized.
    What it actually does, is speed up or slow down the whole thing a bit, to better match the refresh-rate of the display.
    If you're watching a movie, that comes with a certain framerate and your monitor does not refresh at exactly that rate (or a multiple of that), some frames will show up for a less longer time, than others.
    For example, when viewing a stream with 25 fps and your monitor refreshes at 60Hz, most frames will be on the screen for 2 refresh-periods, but quite a few will be on for 3.
    And this results in moving sequences looking a little "skippy".

    The same happens with a movie with 29.97 fps on a 60HZ-Monitor, just with a different rate (should skip apx. every 8 seconds, if I did that calculating right?).

    So ReClock will - in the latter case - speed up the movie just a bit to 30fps (unnoticably). And with PAL you might better readjust the monitor frequency to 50Hz and ReClock will "lock on" the video to that rate.

    I hope, I got that right, James don't yell at me.:rolleyes:

    Well, I guess, the problem with ReClock is rather, that most people think that they don't need it, while they actually do? It would require some hardcore marketing, to get that to the people... :D
  8. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    To make it perfectly clear: There never will be enough demand to justify commecial development of a "reclock" type product, unless we charge $500 per copy.
    If I would rewrite reclock, I would radically change the concept - instead of replacing the direct sound renderer, I would try to create a virtual soundcard instead. More compatible with both applications & OS, and it could include an AC3 codec for "reclocked" SPDIF output as well.
    Reclock is not a "main stream" product, it is a very specialized tool which is loved by the "Home Theatre / Projection / High End" crowd, in spite of its many problems.
    I personally would love to work on reclock in my spare time and I asked the author of ReClock if he is willing to release the source code, but I never got a response. The mail address in the documentation bounced, so I don't really know if he ever received my mail.
    I personally love reclock and I don't want to live without it anymore. But starting from scratch is too much work for me.
    As the development of reclock seems to have come to an end, I beg the author of reclock to release the sources. :bowdown:
  9. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    You explained it very well. I can add the practical uses:
    1.) Judder free display of NTSC-DVDs/HD-DVD/Blu-ray Video material. (As everybody in NTSC countries is used to the 3:2 pulldown judder you see with *every* movie on TV, you probably won't notice it... I do. It sucks.)
    2.) PAL Speedup reverse. PAL DVDs run 4% too fast. Yes, they do. Really. Want to listen to an example? Here it is:
  10. khlb

    khlb Well-Known Member

    Thank you Peer and James trying to explain it to us. I really appreciate it. :agree:

    *Trying to mind-meld with geniuses at work*
    Ok, the NTSC movie is slowed down, causing "judder" or lag, for PAL the sound is pitched up causing sound distortion?

    Ok, I use Vista right now. :p And so far I can tell - I can't change to 50Hz. My NEC LCD offers only 60Hz and 75 Hz. I guess this is one many reasons you have a dislike for this OS. Can LCD monitors be force adjusted to 50 HZ at all?

    But as a alternative to ReClock: Intervideo has developed a technique they call TrueSpeed for WinDVD that will play PAL DVDs converted from NTSC DVDs at the correct speed. Have you tried that feature? Shouldn't that work, especially for Vista users?
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2007
  11. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    Yes, it sucks. You can't compare it to reclock.
  12. Peer

    Peer Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    I don't think it's so much a problem of your LCD but rather the graphics card driver.
    The LCD should take 50, no problem.
    The driver settings typically only show up with 60Hz, because usually that's the ideal refresh rate for normal use of an LCD.
    NVidia also only offers 60Hz by default, but has the option to add user defined refresh rates. I don't know about the Vista-version right now, I'd have to reboot. But I'd guess it's the same there.
  13. khlb

    khlb Well-Known Member

    I rechecked the Release Notes for latest beta 101.41.

    On page 5 and 6 can we find the following information:

    INF Support for Restricted Timings
    This driver version does not support the use of Restricted Timing settings
    (R&T strings) in the INF to control mode validation and/or mode setting for
    custom mode/adapter/monitor combinations. This capability is planned for
    a later driver release.

    Advanced Timings, Custom Resolutions
    This driver does not support adding arbitrary resolutions and timings.

    Mode Filtering for Custom Policies
    This driver does not support defining advanced timings and resolution

    Features Not Yet Available in the NVIDIA Control Panel
    Support for the following control panel features is under development and not
    yet available under Windows Vista:
    • Display Category
    • Run display optimization wizard
    • Move CRT screen position
    • Manage custom timings
    • Run multiple display wizard
    • Change flat panel scaling
    • Video & Television Category
    • Run television setup wizard
    • Adjust television color settings
    • Adjust screen size and position

    So there we have it, I and other nVidia users have to wait for a later ForceWare-release.
  14. oldjoe

    oldjoe Well-Known Member

  15. PeebZ

    PeebZ Member

    Yes. yes I would!
  16. capitano

    capitano New Member

    me toooooo!:agree: :agree:
  17. RedFox 1

    RedFox 1 Super Moderator

    I agree if the price was not to steep I would gladly pay for it.:clap:
  18. Faye

    Faye Well-Known Member

    I'm still not sure what ReClock will accomplish for me anyway. I have an HDTV with 1080p output at 50 or 60 hz.

    AnyDVD will switch to the appropriate one depending on a disk being inserted being pal or ntsc... however, to screw things up royally, HDDVDs are often 24fps. I don't think there's a way (apart from 3:2 pullup) to fix that.

    What does ReClock do additionally? What can be done about 24fps movies?
  19. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    You set the refresh rate to a multiple of 24 (24, 48 or 72Hz) and get rid of the 3:2 pulldown judder.
    High end displays / projectors support this.
  20. khlb

    khlb Well-Known Member

    I imagine that right now I am (like Neo 8)) still feeling a bit like Alice...

    Neo : .....?
    Morpheus : Tumbling down the rabbit hole? Hmm?


    Since I don't have a Region 1 DVD in my collection, it is only the 4% speed up problem that is nagging me now. Didn't know about this before I joined this forum.:doh:

    If by a long shot you did receive the source - could you add this support to AnyDVD first, then create a platinum version - like AnySoundcard (<--Another stupid name, I know :D )

    What about Blue-ray and HD DVD? Does the problem exist on those platforms?