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DL DVD Copies

So why do people make such a big deal about it?
Agreed!
Just wondering...does it really matter that the original layer break is not used? Will this cause problems during playback?
Let me clarify: A CloneDVD2 layer break works just fine in your player as long as your player is made to play DL backup media and as long as you used Verbatim +R DL media burned at a resonable speed and booktyped to DVD-ROM upon finalization. Earlier versions of CloneDVD may or may not have had some problems with layer transition but that was long ago "fixed" and I suspect poor DL media quality was the real problem even back then. So if some of your older CloneDVD DL backups have issues, that may be the reason.

CloneDVD places it's "automatically-chosen" layer break at the end of the chapter closest to the original layer break for a reason ... it is a transcoder by design. But, depending on the particular scene in the particular movie where that chapter change takes place, you may or may not like the automatically chosen spot in the movie as well as you like the spot that was chosen by the DVD authoring company. Or maybe even chosen by the director himself, if he keeps tight eye on the digital transfer of his movie ... I hear Ridley Scott is like this.

In other words, all DVD players must go through a short "pause" to transition to layer2 during movie playback. When a DVD authoring company places a layer transition break, it usually chooses a point in the movie where there is a dark scene, or a fade-out, or a switch to a new scene. So you could watch the movie and never notice your DVD player pausing for the layer transition. When your DVD player pauses for the the CloneDVD "placed" layer break, it may or may not be in as aesthetically a pleasing a spot as the place that the DVD authoring company chose to place the layer break. The "chapter end/begin new chapter" point that CloneDVD chooses to place the break may be between two action scenes (or even in the middle of a single action scene) that the director intended to be fluid but your player "layer-pauses" for the transition in a noticeable way thereby affecting the "flow" of the movie. Then again, the chapter end/begin new chapter may be two different scenes (as most often happens) and you will hardly notice the layer transition player-pause. So, for all practical purposes, it boils down to "how picky are you(?)". For most movies and most people, the CloneDVD layer break point is not an issue. And the break works fine as long as one uses (I second Webslingers' advice) quality Verbatim +R DL media for your backups.

To further define the differences between the two programs:

CloneDVD2 is a transcoder. It's purpose is the allow you to remove elements that you do not want on your backup (such as ads, previews, audio and subtitle tracks etc).

> One chooses DVD5 mode to rip, compress and burn the remaining elements to a single layer backup media. Or to split remaining elements onto two single layer backup medias thereby avoiding loss of quality due to compression.
> One chooses DL mode to rip and burn the remaining elements to double layer media without compression. As a transcoder, by both definition and design, CloneDVD has to change the original layer break because it is not a "duplicator" of the original DVD it is (again) a transcoder of the original DVD.

CloneCD simply copies everything off layer1 and layer2 of the original and places them on the DL backup media's layer1 & layer2 in exactly the same way, including the original layer break. I.E. it's purpose is to NOT transcode. It produces a 1:1 backup and you are not given the ability to choose to remove any unwanted elements ... only duplicate.

So there is nothing "wrong" or "better" about the way either program works. CloneDVD and CloneCD are intended to complete the task of backing up movies offering a choice of two different methods: Transcode or Duplicate. So whadayawannado(?) ... you choose.

Me(?), I'm like Webslinger, if I'm backing-up a DL original to DL media why bother removing anything(?): I just use CloneCD ... it's a no brainer! If I don't like the movie enough to justify the use of more expensive Verbatim DL media, then I'll use CloneDVD to split the movie over two SL disks. In either case I usally keep all elements of the original including menus. And I never compress. But that's just whadIwannado!

Issue cleared up now?

Best regards,
Whisperer
 
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ripping to the HD will retain the layer break of the original backup then webslinger? if that's the case will it make any difference then if we use clonedvd2? will it save the original layer break?
 
so you are saying, if i rip the backup copy to the HardDrive first. will it retain it's original layer break from the original dvd? and then use clonedvd2 to back it up? will it retain the layer break? since you say clonedvd2 picks a layer break? i'm a bit confused.
CloneDVD does not retain the original layer break. CloneCD does because it makes true 1:1 copies. It really doesn't matter though.
 
ripping to the HD will retain the layer break of the original backup then webslinger?

Nothing you do with Clonedvd2, including ripping to ISO, will retain the original layer break position.
 
What's the story??

Sure would like to see CloneDVD come up with a "combine" feature. Would enable one to burn more than one sequence per disc.

The problem that I have run into is that my DL burns won't perform in my Toshiba player, but play great in another one that I have in another viewing area. Would be nice to know (before you purchase) if the player will handle the backups that I have made, but I don't know how one could do this? Any ideas? Also, how does the "up-convert" to HD feature work on the new players? If I buy another one, might as well go that route? :confused:
 
Now im Confused then

Dual Layer

Double Layer DVD

Single Layer

Which,how do you know which is which and how can you tell then

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
 
You seam to be pushing Verbatim Disc a lot in this forum then is there any other that you would say are just as good then

How about DataWrite Titanium Branded

Ridisc Branded Blue
 
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You seam to be pushing Verbatim Disc a lot in this forum then is there any other that you would say are just as good then

Not for DL media.
You already have my recommendation: Verbatim +R DL (made in Singapore)
 
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Interesting discussion about layer breaks.
I did not use DL DVD in the past therefore I'm not very experienced with it and maybe I made a mistake copying a DVD:
I made a backup of DVD with CloneDVD and write it to an ISO-Image (about 8GB in size) - so far so good. Now I wanted to write the image back to a DVD+DL with ImgBurn, because it is said that it writes correct layer breaks.

In ImgBurn, when I try to display the ISO Layer Break information, the following error message occurs:
Optimal L1 Data Zone Start LBA: None Found! (VTS_01)
This image has not been mastered correctly for burning onto a double layer (OTP Track Path) disc.
None of the cells meet the 'DVD-Video specification' criteria for a potential layer break position.


Seems to be correct because I've learned that CloneDVD removes LBs :doh:

My question is: how can I write the ISO image to a DVD+DL with correct layer break? Does CloneDVD the job? Sure, I can try it, but I don't want to sacrify one of those expensive blank disks.

In the future I will use CloneCD for image copying ;)
 
... ripping to the HD will retain the layer break of the original backup then webslinger? if that's the case will it make any difference then if we use clonedvd2? will it save the original layer break?
Dude! ... NO!
... My question is: how can I write the ISO image to a DVD+DL with correct layer break? Does CloneDVD the job? Sure, I can try it, but I don't want to sacrify one of those expensive blank disks.

In the future I will use CloneCD for image copying ;)
No, CloneDVD will not do this job in this way. So don't even bother to try it. CloneCD would seem to be the correct choice for what you want to do vikingár.

I guess my above long posting explaining the differece between The CloneDVD "transcoder" program and the CloneCD "duplicator" program was in vain because two different members went on to ask if a CloneDVD ripped ISO file retains or can be manupulated to keep the original layer break.

Final answer to these questions: NO! CloneDVD is a transcoder and by design and purpose it is not made to keep the original layer break on DL burns or DL ISO rips. There is nothing wrong about this. CloneDVD is meant to work this way. If you don't want to transcode (remove elements) then don't use a transcoder. Use CloneCD instead to create a mirror of everything on your original including the original layer break.

Best regards,
Whisperer
 
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was in vain because two different members went on to ask if a CloneDVD ripped ISO file retains or can be manupulated to keep the original layer break.

Apparently stickies aren't read much either.
 
Webslinger,
Yah, thats a good sticky. But as we both know the synonym for "Sticky" is "Ignore" on most forum boards. Your choice of the word "Remaster" (ie CloneDVD "remasters the backup" into a new-different image) is probably better terminology than my simply stating that CloneDVD is a "transcoder" and isn't meant to create a mirror image file. My choice of words just goes in one ear and out the other without registering on the readers mind. Probably because the word "transcoder" means nothing to a member inexperienced in the different types of software all of which are made to create backups of our movies by using different methods (which is why they are asking questions in the first place).

Another thing that bothers me is when members sometimes think something is wrong with CloneDVD because it "transcodes" the elements of the original, including the layer break, and replaces it with a "CloneDVD version" of an ISO for burning or viewing off the HDD. They think something is "wrong" because that is not the method that they (personally envisioned) wanted to make their backup but chose the wrong software type due to inexperience. That is what transcoder software does! Even if no elements are manually removed, CloneDVD is still a transcoder by architecture and cannot be made to function like CloneCD. There will be plenty of times when a CloneDVD's transcoding ability will be the right choice for making a certain backup so one should have both CloneDVD and CloneCD in one's arsenal.

Whisperer
 
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Thanks to all for the great information in this thread. Not trying to be picky but for clarification, I do not beleive that CloneCD makes an an exact 1:1 (bit for bit) copy of the original disk. In order to backup a CSS encrypted DVD AnyDVD would be utilized. AnyDVD removes the CSS and makes other modifications to remove various protection schemes. CloneCD will make a copy of the DVD image as seen through (modified by) AnyDVD. Just want to clear up a point of terminoligy for some who are new to this process.
 
Webslinger,
Your choice of the word "Remaster" (ie CloneDVD "remasters the backup" into a new-different image) is probably better terminology than my simply stating that CloneDVD is a "transcoder"

Actually, I just copied and pasted what James wrote. I didn't write that.
 
Thanks to all for the great information in this thread. Not trying to be picky but for clarification, I do not beleive that CloneCD makes an an exact 1:1 (bit for bit) copy of the original disk.

Good. I don't want useless Sony junk on my backups.

You are correct. The use of Anydvd removes protection, so the protection isn't backed up as well.
 
Sorry for asking a question...

it will not happen again...

And: I've never said, that there's someting wrong with CloneDVD.

btw: just came back from skiing...
 
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