"Disc is region free" ...means what?

Discussion in 'AnyDVD HD (Blu-ray issues)' started by markfilipak, Sep 13, 2018.

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  1. theosch

    theosch Well-Known Member

    One way is to look at the packaging of the disc or on the upper side of the Disc on the label.
    So far, afaik all discs with a region lock I encountered , at least have it noted on the packagaing and/or on the disc-label what region lock is on the disc.

    Some region-free discs have ABC marking on the box and/or disc-label.
    Other (afaik region free discs) didn't have any marking noted on the box nor on disc-label, afaik they are region free, too.
    Not sure, but I'd guess but I think I saw a disc also with region code, without any notification. I chose player-B-emulation in AnyDVD. Also never got discs here from other regions.

    To find out the disc region, when it's not noted, if AnyDVD has bad luck here to find out the region, I'd guess the developers can't help, otherwise it would be possible to have it already implemented in AnyDVD.

    A+B+C disc (region free) note on the disc surface.

    I can't say how AnyDVD does it, but I know a program called "UltraISO".
    E.g. in UltraISO you can modify an UDF filesystem (like Blu-ray has), without extracting ISO-content to get modified iso and without the need to repack it.

    Maybe AnyDVD uses similar way to replace or modify some Java jar-files on the fly or put replaced ones in UDF file system. "UDF parser", don't know.
    Also you can hide files in UDF, as if it was deleted, and it's still reversible (toggable)

    You can copy/delete files/directories here, move and rename the directories without repacking it. Obviously this is possible with UDF filesystem.

    Also tested this in Linux mounting an ISO as writable.
    The write-moutning didn't work in first place.
    First had to mount the iso normally as read-only and then remount it is rw.
    /media/ISO <=mountpoint
    1)mount -o loop *.ISO /media/ISO
    2)("mount -o remount,rw *.ISO /media/ISO" .)

    It worked editing the ISO in Linux (e.g. renaming some files in it)
    But Virtual Drive Software in Windows no longer could mount that edited ISO (Alcohol 120%), but didn't test with Virtual Clone Drive - only Linux could still mount the modified ISO.

    @markfilipak. At least this might confirm modifying on UDF-filesystem-level, as "virtually" mentioned =>Virtual Drive - Blu-ray has UDF 2.5/2.6.
    When AnyDVD can circumvent AACS I think it should be able to interfere on UDF filesystem level with the region-chech files in the disc's filesystem, virtually altered.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  2. Jamie

    Jamie Well-Known Member

    You know this is getting old. Either you understand it, or don't. Read Pete's first message in the old thread and you understand what is happening, or you don't. To have two whole threads on this is ridiculous.
    slimm likes this.
  3. BrianG61UK

    BrianG61UK Well-Known Member

    Trial and error is the only way.
    The code on the disk decides and it is (or at least it can be) a program that gets interpreted/executed by the player, and as you know the only universal way to determine what a program will do when it runs is to run it and see.
  4. Jamie

    Jamie Well-Known Member

    If the disk is region free why would you want to change it when you are ripping it in anydvd? I have never had a region free disk fail. Has others??? So why is this so important?
  5. markfilipak

    markfilipak Well-Known Member

    Regarding Region Code shown on dics packaging:
    The labels on the disc packaging and the actual region code are frequently different.
  6. markfilipak

    markfilipak Well-Known Member

    Kindly describe how I can conduct such trial and error. My movie players (computer or home theater) don't report it, and I don't have a Region B or Region C player. So how would I conduct a trial and error test?
  7. markfilipak

    markfilipak Well-Known Member

    That's not what I'm doing, Jamie.
  8. theosch

    theosch Well-Known Member

    Yes good question, I'd think the questions were just hypothetical to play through all scenarious what would happen when with a region-free disc, and you DON't select "disc is region free", if it would make harm to the copy. Obviusly hadn't tried it out yet and just to ask to be on the safe side.

    Agreed never failed with region-free discs. As AnyDVD can't change the requesting-region in the check-code on the disc, so it is not possible to get a region-free Blu-ray not to be region free (=locked) <=not possible, regardless what region-player setting you choose in AnyDVD. :)
  9. BrianG61UK

    BrianG61UK Well-Known Member

    The only way I'm certain would work for eveery disk woutld be to find a software player that can be hacked to change it's blu-ray region an unlimited number of times.
    I know it was relatively easy with PowerDVD a few versions back but I haven't looked into this recently.

    Later: Here you go: https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/powerdvd-14-how-to-reset-the-region-code-change-counter.63301/
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  10. markfilipak

    markfilipak Well-Known Member

    I didn't ask AnyDVD anything. I was presented with
    (*) Disc is region free
    and I'm asking
    Does that mean that the disc is already region free?
    Or is AnyDVD asking whether I want the stream to be region free?
  11. theosch

    theosch Well-Known Member

    Hm, that's new to me. At least I know you can't trust amazon spec page or other web pages.
    Afaik on the packaging should be trustworthy.

    Otherwise, to the film-industry it wouldn't matter if the buyers know the region code because potentially it's anyway only from their region, or their + 1 other region, or region free.
    It could be that some file studios intentionally might label a wrong region, who decide to make things more complicate to buyers to rip their discs, eg. from other region of unknown origin.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  12. BrianG61UK

    BrianG61UK Well-Known Member

    This has been explained to you already.
    I'm beginning to think you're just a troll.

    Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
  13. theosch

    theosch Well-Known Member

    Yes, I also asked that myself. Option A B and C are clearer now anyway, they are to choose that AnyDVD manipulates/adds playing-software-emulation-region, the disc was played in an A/B or C player, to make the disc region free with approrpiate selction if it was locked.

    Option "region free" I'd guess does nothing to the disc's code check.
    So If you have an region A locked e.g. and you choose "Disc is region free" AnyDVD does nothing, it is still locked to region A, same as to untick the checkbox to remove disc region,

    but at least not bricked e.g. when chosen with a copy, so it still is possible in this case, if you recopy the ISO mounted in virtual drive and remove the region with selecting for A-region-player in AnyDVD dialog afterwards.

    I'd guess also a region-free-disc have checking code like.:
    if("A" equals "A") then play the movie, else show the bad region card
    if("B" equals "B") then play the movie, else show the bad region card
    if("C" equals "C") then play the movie, else show the bad region card

    if("A" equals "ABC") then play the movie, else show the bad region card
    if("B" equals "ABC") then play the movie, else show the bad region card
    if("C" equals "ABC") then play the movie, else show the bad region card

    Just a example

  14. markfilipak

    markfilipak Well-Known Member

    It hasn't. Let me recap. In my original tread starter I wrote
    Ch3vr0n responded
    Well, I didn't tell AnyDVD anything. AnyDVD presented that dialog to me all on its own.
    That raised a sh*t storm on this forum, with many people trying to help, and misinterpreting, and responding to other people's misunderstandings, and people having to retract what they had written previously...
    ...and my original question -- a simple question, really -- got lost.

    So, now that I have your attention, I'll ask it again:
    Does that mean that the disc is already region free?
    Or is AnyDVD asking whether I want the stream to be region free?

    Thank you.
  15. markfilipak

    markfilipak Well-Known Member

    Manufacturers will often label a disc "Region A" when it's actually region free. They do that to control distribution. I'd like my readers to know that a particular disc is actually Region A or Region B or Region (whatever), or region free and to disregard the disc label. I want to do that for those people who are looking for a region B disc, for example, because their's has gone bad and they can't find a replacement (that is, it's out of print in their region). Just because it says "Region A" on the U.S. package doesn't mean that the content isn't actually region free.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  16. markfilipak

    markfilipak Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Brian.

    I followed that link and eventually found the simple CMD file that deletes %PROGRAMDATA%\CyberLink\BDNAV\ris.ifo
    Such a simple solution.

    Now I can change PowerDVD to Region A... play the disc.
    Change to Region B... play the disc.
    Change to Region C... play the disc.

    If they all play, then the disc is, indeed, region free.

    It would be less tedious for me if AnyDVD simply told me that without having to go through all the PowerDVD region changes, but... Oh, well.

    PS: Of course, I will just create 3 'ris.ifo' files, one for each region, and swap them in and out.

    Cheers! And thanks again.
  17. theosch

    theosch Well-Known Member

    It could be interesting to know how you could test that out without the need to install PowerDVD.
    James suggested you can set VLC to use a disc region, even change it, so a solution.

    To me if I had doubts I'd simply make a rip with region setting as on packaging. If the region labeled wrong on the packaging, I'll see in the AnyDVD status window if it says on mounted ISO "disc is region free"

    OK you don't rip the disc, just play it and you prefer to use PowerDVD I'd guess that ris.ifo file-deletion way is probably the fastest method to try-out.
    If you ju don't playback via PowerDVD then it doesn't matter to know the region really, even for the rip.
    But as proper way I'd always choose the appropriate region-player emulation in the AnyDVD-BD-region dialog, the region-player-request-code on disc prefers for better overall device compatibilty.

    Maybe if you set in VLC as an emulated region player, and if the disc won't accept it, so you can find out which region code the disc has.
    Maybe this is faster than with PowerDVD ris.ifo deletion (eg. just check box menu with four options to click at)

    There also add trailers, if they play you know it's the correct region. I hope, not sure if there are BD-Discs that play add trailers in playing program with a wrong region-setting.

    Afaik when Blu-ray with mplayer eg with:
    ...\mplayer.exe br:// -blu-ray device "G:\BDMV\STREAM"

    Afiak there are no add trailer played, and MPlayer doesn't use region code.

    Ah I see, also with AnyDVD dialog testable, four possibilites.
    You need to go through all four ceetainly, to determine also if the disc maybe is not only A, but maybe AB, or maybe AC or BC

    Here you check one by one with A setting, then with B setting, if both play in PowerDVD then the disc is A+B.
    If it wont play with C you're sure it's AB setting.

    But going though that four takes time, and AnyDVD rescanning the disc every time.
    PowerDVD test method or with VLC setting without AnyDVD is probably faster in this case to find it out.
    How much time does it cost to do that few step with the ris.ifo file-deletion?
    I'd doubt it would take long (2 minutes). I don't think you have to go through many discs every day.

    It sound like you were reselling and you want to offer extended support?
    As if you need to know the correct specs of many discs you want to sell, and you want to declare the correct specs on the selling-page.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  18. markfilipak

    markfilipak Well-Known Member

    Oh, now I think I get it. Correct me if I'm wrong: The Java is in the stream. AnyDVD is handling the stream, looking for that IF-clause. When (if) it finds it, AnyDVD simply makes the IF-clause unconditionally succeed. That's sweet.

    So, I assume, if AnyDVD doesn't encounter such an IF-clause, the clause either, 1, got missed, or 2, was "hidden" in some way (via some "obscure" coding trick), or 3, wasn't in the stream in the first place (that is, the disc is region free).

    PS: I must be wrong. The Java must not be in the stream. Someone said -- rightly, I believe -- that the Java is executed within the optical drive's memory. So, I guess I don't get it.

    Aw, screw it. Thanks to Brian, I think I have a way to determine whether a movie disc actually is region free. I don't really care about the details... I'm just being an engineer.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  19. markfilipak

    markfilipak Well-Known Member

    Nope. Just a retired guy trying to be a good citizen.
  20. markfilipak

    markfilipak Well-Known Member

    Hi, Michael,

    Just to wrap this up...
    The Blu-ray Disc Region dialog is not clear about that. Trying to be a good citizen, I started a new thread:
    I'll have to change it to clearly state that the user is providing the packaging's marked region code (using those radio buttons) because (or if) AnyDVD can't determine the actual region code.

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