"Disc is region free" ...means what?

[markfilipak]

I did.

I do know, and I told you. ...

Okay, let's try a multiple choice answer.

My PowerDVD software plays only Region A discs. If I instruct AnyDVD to report a Region A+B+C disc as Region B, PowerDVD plays it anyway because...
A, PowerDVD ignores what AnyDVD injects because it knows the Region Code of the disc is actually A+B+C.
B, PowerDVD ignores Region Codes.
C, AnyDVD doesn't actually change the Region Code.

What's the answer, James?

 

[theosch]

Please correct me if telling nonsense again, markfiliak is not the only one who has or had trouble to understand.

Yes yes, finally got some idea about 01:00 am here, really right before James answer while eating, and typing would take some longer time, and didn't want to tell.

But I needed very much time and without the no-answers from my stupid yes-no-assumption questions, and without the hint which post to read, I never had gotten any idea.

No No I could be telling anything, just to hide that I still wouldn't be understanding and just now after getting James last direct helping answer.
--

So I'd think so AnyDVD cannot change directly nor remove which specific region code is stored on the disc, which the (disc) knows of it iself?

AnyDVD just can (add) some addional extra code to the region-code to the disc virtually /to the ISO-copy?
The user just needs to know the appropriate region of the BD-Disc, to tell AnyDVD which playing-region-software-emulation-code to add, whether to simulate a region-A-playback-software/ a region-B-playback-software or a region-C-playback-software to the region-code on the disc. That's happening the fly, DISC virtualized/overlayed. The disc code is faulted, and playable if the kind of answering code (A/B or C) matches to the discs region identification. Then it's same-like as region free.
The disc region identification region code/codes itself don't get modified. It's just some extra added code, correct?

why don't you simply answer my question?

My PowerDVD software plays only Region A discs. If I instruct AnyDVD to report a Region A+B+C disc as Region B, why does PowerDVD play it?

@markfilipak
Also If the disc has (A+B+C) region, in this specific case I think it shouldn't matter really if you choose A/B or C in AnyDVD setting.

AnyDVD just adds some extra code to emulate A/B/C software-player to authenticate to the disc.
No matter what, in this case all region settings in AnyDVD are playable, because A+B+C discs anyway allow to play back A and B and C -region code playing-software.
If the disc is emulated to be played by region A/B or C shouldn't matter, bacause A+B+C allows all. That extra code answers before PowerDVD can.
And if you set to region B in AnyDVD, AnyDVD just adds simulation code to the ISO copy or or to the Disc prepared through, to fabricate a region B player. The A+B+C identification code itself on the disc is not chnaged, same as as it would be with A/B or a C region, just region B-software-player answering code added/overlayed over, which also works with A+B+C discs. I know Disc itself is read-only.

-
A+B+C region discs also play with setting "disc is region free"?
What's irritating me a bit something I read here, some kind of statement, if the disc has a region code A/B/C or A+B+C, the playing software must tell a region code:

==>

To really understand the settings, you must know how region lock works on Blu-ray discs.
Every playback device must have a region. A, B or C.

If the disc is A+B+C and what if setting in AnyDVD to "Disc is region free", does AnyDVD emulate a region-free playing software then?

But that wouldn't make make sense, if the disc has region code on it, the playing software still needs to answer at least with a (anyone) disc region it uses.

So I'd guess, when setting "Disc is region-free", it's not that in AnyDVD adds any extra code to the disc to emulate a "region free software-player" answering code, that would make even A+B+C discs unplayable "Region free setting" it leaves also A+B+C as it is, also no code adding.
"disc is region free" setting in AnyDVD generally leaves all region code stuff on the disc as it is, if remembered correctly from s.o from a few years ealier.

Please correct me if I'm telling nonsense again. And if I really know it now more or less good, I can't explain it very well in a short message.

LOL 4:30 AM here now.
I should better go to bed. 3 hours busy in editing and trying to express hopefully not too misunderstanding.

 

[BrianG61UK]

PowerDVD12 seems to be getting more information than AnyDVD supplies. PowerDVD seems to be getting information (in Tests #1 through 3) regarding the disc's actual Region Code (All regions), no matter how AnyDVD is set. To state it another way: If PowerDVD relied only on what AnyDVD reported, then Tests #2 & 3 should have failed to play.

Discuss...

I think of it like this:

Without AnyDVD PowerDVD will, in a some real sense, play any disk, any region.

Wiithout AnyDVD PowerDVD interprets the playing instructions it reads from the disk which which may include instructions amounting to:

if PLAYER_REGION is A then play "properly" otherwise play WARNING_WRONG_REGION_MESSAGE

AnyDVD spots the reference to PLAYER_REGION and replaces that with the region you chose when you first showed AnyDVD the disk.

So Now PowerDVD see instructions amounting to:

if A is A then play "properly" otherwise play WARNING_WRONG_REGION_MESSAGE

If you put a region B disk in without AnyDVD your region A PowerDVD will interpret instructions from the disk amounting to:

if PLAYER_REGION is B then play "properly" otherwise play WARNING_WRONG_REGION_MESSAGE

And only the message will be played.

With AnyDVD, if you told AnyDVD the disk was region B it would change this to:

if B is B then play "properly" otherwise play WARNING_WRONG_REGION_MESSAGE

and the disk would play properly.

 

[markfilipak]

All this confusion is incredible.

Case #1, I put in a disc that's Region A, only. I tell AnyDVD to tell PowerDVD that the disc is Region B. PowerDVD refuses to play it.
Case #2, I put in a disc that's Region A+B+C. I tell AnyDVD to tell PowerDVD that the disc is Region B. PowerDVD plays it.

Case #1 is explainable.
Case #2 is not explainable.

It's really that simple. And it means that PowerDVD is getting information about the disc (that is, that it actually is region free), by some other means.

What is that means?

James simply shows us a trivial IF-clause that really explains nothing and then tells us that it is how the Region Code is NOT determined. I cannot believe this whole thread is real. I think I've fallen into a black hole.

 

[markfilipak]

Without AnyDVD PowerDVD will, in a some real sense, play any disk, any region.

No, it won't.

 

[markfilipak]

AnyDVD just can (add) some addional extra code to the region-code to the disc virtually /to the ISO-copy?

In my tests, PowerDVD is NOT playing mounted ISO-files. It's playing real, commercial BD movie discs.

 

[markfilipak]

Actually, looking at this again:
C, AnyDVD doesn't actually change the Region Code.
That is a likely case, to wit: AnyDVD sees that I've selected Region B, and it sees that the disc is actually Region A+B+C, so it says to itself: "Region B is included in Regions A+B+C, so instead of telling PowerDVD that the disc is Region B, I'm going to ignore what Mark wants and tell PowerDVD the truth: That the disc is Region A+B+C".

James? Is that what AnyDVD does?

 

[markfilipak]

I realize this is old, but I'm reviewing this whole thread and it jumpped out at me.

If AnyDVD is seeing a disc for the first time AND that prompt shows region A, B or C, then AnyDVD has detected a region code, and you should use the recommendation.

I hope that's NOT the case. I say that because, if I had a Region B movie and AnyDVD said
(*) Region B
and I let that go through without changing it to
(*) Region A
then I'm pretty sure PowerDVD would not play it.

 

[theosch]

@ markfilipak

I can't program anything, also no Java.

It's better if someelse explain it, in the meantime maybe, hope my "assumption" helps a bit.
If not, all good, too, maybe I'll learn a bit more that kind of stuff.

The best explanation that I'd have is that you used wrong region setting in AnyDVD.
The region setting in AnyDVD to add code, which (the added code) emulates that specified playing-software region you slected in AnyDVD setting, perhaps didn't match with the identification code on the Blu-ray disc.
(Is the expression "Playing-software region" fitting?
At least afaik the Blu-ray drive itself gives a damn about region code other posts mntioned here.)

So code was added to simulate e.g. a Region C playing-software, but your ISO or the virtauliced disc still also has NOT-matching region identifaction code which is not modified by AnyDVD.
That assumption would match, because AnyDVD often also can't identify the DISC-region-code anyway, so it would have problems in pretty often modfiying the identfication code itself.
Seen so far of 20 BD discs. Maybe two of those twenty Disc regions were identyfyable by AnyDVD.

{...}
All said by Pete and myself should reveal the mystery. If there is no program code stored on the disc, which is similar to this

if player region == 'A' show movie, else show "WRONG REGION!" screen

AnyDVD cannot alter this code to

if 'B' == 'A' show movie,  else show "WRONG REGION!" screen

so the movie will play. If such a code would exist - on a real region A coded disc - setting AnyDVD to region 'B' would be fatal. As 'B' == 'A' would never be true, the disc would never play. Regardless of the region of the player / playback device. It would always display the "WRONG REGION!" screen
Not really so hard to understand?

If you set the region correctly to 'A', the code would become

if 'A' == 'A' show movie,  else show "WRONG REGION!" screen

which is always true. The disc would be changed from 'A' locked to region free, as 'A' == 'A' is still true, even if you play it in a region 'B' player.

 

[theosch]

I realize this is old, but I'm reviewing this whole thread and it jumpped out at me.

I hope that's NOT the case. I say that because, if I had a Region B movie and AnyDVD said
(*) Region B
and I let that go through without changing it to
(*) Region A
then I'm pretty sure PowerDVD would not play it.

Earlier today I wrote a big post, that if you set another region code in AnyDVD than on the disc, it would modify the region code on the disc to another region code. But that was bullshit as I thought and wrote. Again to James/others thanks for correcting me.

If I interpreted correctyl (I hope), that change is "just" in some adding of extra code , which emulates a playing-software region what the disc gets told, when it (disc-code) does its check.

Yes I'd guess it is. Your ISOs must contain the added code which simulates the same region-playing software as the region code identification on the disc (the Disc region binary ident-code itself is not touched at all by AnyDVD, regardless of which region setting you choose in AnyDVD).


The good thing is, no matter what WRONG region code you might had set in AnyDVD, at least it should alaways play with unlicensed playing software like VLC and MPlayer, etc., because unlicensed playing software doesn't execute the disc region code which would check for a matching playing-software-region code.

Forgot also,Playing an m2ts file directly in (BDMV/STREAM -folder) or corresponding playlist file directly as Pete or James described, forgot the user name, also don't execute the checking code on the disc.
---

Maybe there are other reasons. Maybe on some accosions you choosed the correct region, but other confounding factors playing a role

E.g. other things like Bus encrypted BD-discs, in such a case only the ISO must be created with AnyDVD directly, NOT with ImgBurn+AnyDVD, because only AnyDVD directly can encounter properly bus encryptrion!!!
(ISO from bus encrypted disc with ImgBurn+AnyDVD would be also NOT playable in MPlayer and VLC playable, NOT only not accepted to the PowerDVD program.
Afaik Bus-encryption is some kind of 2nd-encryption (of the SATA-ATAPI interace), I'm not not quite sure.

@markfilipak
Does your ISO get played ONLY with AnyDVD ON in PowerDVD?
If yes, but NOT with AnyDVD OFF: Your ISO was probably made with AnyDVD image ripper (keep protection) (AACS+region code protection cannot be touched), which is not playable WITHOUT AnyDVD.
If you set "keep protection in AnyDVD ripper" afaik also the region code settings in AnyDVD is ignored and not used in AnyDVD and AACS as it is, but I'm not 100% sure.

Still Original BD-ROM discs should be playable with PowerDVD even without AnyDVD.

ISOs image format can't store "key-identification" meta numbers helping to decrypt the AACS, so if the ISO is with protection, it needs AnyDVD to get the missing meta-info or whatever check numbers from the OPD, which are only stored on pressed BDs, but not on the normal readable area, e.g. on an inner ring of the disc.
That missing meta information is stored in the AnyDVD OPD.
Afaik on the ISO with protection there is still some information left, which is sufficient for AnyDVD to know the matching meta-AACS-data needed for decryption (stored in the OPD).
To access the OPD AnyDVD of course must be on, so that an iso with encryption can be decrypted, PowerDVD has AACS keys itself afaik, not 100% sure, and it needs the metadata-AACS-info counterpart missing in the iso , to get from the AnyDVD Online Protection database.

When AnyDVD sees a new disc, yet unknown it reads that meta-information and adds that to the OPD (not designated to store within ISO image format).

--

When I had set region setting when creating the ISO, even though the disc wihout any region code (region free), at least not any region logo, and no A+B+C logo, and I mount that ISO it in virtual drive while AnyDVD is running, and I set AnyDVD to "remove region code" but tell another region than that I first ripped the ISO with, even though region-free, then I get/got warning message in AnyDVD status window s.th. similar like "...bad magic header".
([Edit] This was a region free BD-disc without any region code LOGO, and I set region B, and then the ISO gave that message) not sure if that would hinder to play in PowerDVD.

Afaik retested with newer AnyDVD version, couldn't reproduce that warning message with same ISO.

 

[markfilipak]

Hi again, Michael,

Yes, you have that table of "dialog, status, the disc is" correct. Some people might quibble about whether "region free" means the same as "A+B+C".

Well, this is something I do know about. DVDs have 9 possible regions (...I think that's right). There is no DVD region zero, but player software will usually interpret Region 0 as region free. But Blu-rays don't have a region zero metadata setting. A region free BD is marked (both visually and metadata-wise) as Region A+B+C (or ALL).

Yes, a disc can be coded to be one, two even three regions at the same time, and I think that "region free" means it is NOT coded to ANY region at all. Yes, you cannot use the dialog to select more than one region.

Okay, that answers the question about selecting multiple regions... You can't.

The purpose of that AnyDVD radio button dialog is for YOU to tell AnyDVD what the REAL region of the disc is, when AnyDVD cannot determine it automatically.

Aha!! Now, that's really important information. Thank you for that. So, that means that I can't use that pre-selection as a definative indication of Region Code. That's too bad (but it's good to know if I ever encounter a disc for which AnyDVD can't determine the Region Code).

You MUST have the correct region selected in this dialog for the decryption to work properly. The decrypted result (files, ISO file, playback directly from disc with AnyDVD running) is THEN region free automatically. If that dialog is set incorrectly, the ISO or a disc burned from the ISO, may play incorrectly or not at all.

That also is very valuable information. Thank you, again. So, AnyDVD always reports the disc as Region A+B+C no matter what I select.

...But wait, that can't be right. I say that because if I have a Region A disc, and I select
(*) Region B
then AnyDVD says

• Determined region(s): A
  Blu-ray standard region lock adjusted to Region B!

and PowerDVD says

• THIS BLU-RAY DISC WILL PLAY BACK ON REGION A PLAYERS ONLY

So it appears that what you wrote: " is THEN region free automatically" is incorrect.

 

[markfilipak]

... Your ISOs ...

I'm not playing ISOs. I'm playing actual BD movie discs.

 

[markfilipak]

the Disc region code itself is not touched at all by AnyDVD, no matter which region setting you choose in AnyDVD

What you wrote is not true.

 

[markfilipak]

Why does AnyDVD leave users to reverse engineer how it determines (and sets) Region Code instead of just telling users how it works?

Now, don't get me wrong: I love AnyDVD. But this confusion is not helpful.

 

[markfilipak]

@ markfilipak

The best explanation that I'd have is that you used wrong region setting in AnyDVD.

I believe what I've posted shows that I've not used the wrong region setting... I'm doing experiments to determine what it is that AnyDVD actually does (and I should mention that what I've discovered does make sense).

The region setting in AnyDVD to add code ...

I believe that's NOT how AnyDVD works. I believe that AnyDVD injects metadata into the stream that tricks PowerDVD into believing that the disc is a particular Region Code.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

Nope, afaik it doesn't inject anything but physically alters the existing code to make the disc playable in all regions

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 6P met Tapatalk

 

[markfilipak]

... You always specify the region where the disc is from, not your own region ...

Ch3vr0n, if that is correct, then how do you explain this:

If I have a Region A disc, and I select
(*) Region B
then AnyDVD says

• Determined region(s): A
  Blu-ray standard region lock adjusted to Region B!

and PowerDVD says

• THIS BLU-RAY DISC WILL PLAY BACK ON REGION A PLAYERS ONLY

AnyDVD is actually changing the Region Code. I realize that the case you cite: "not your own region", is the opposite of what I'm doing: using a fake region (Region B), but the principle is the same. I can't test your scenario because I don't have a Region B disc.

From PowerDVD's response, I can conclude that PowerDVD still recognizes that the BD drive is Region A but thinks that the disc is Region B (because AnyDVD made it Region B). So "the region where the disc is from" can't be correct. Do you follow my logic?

 

[markfilipak]

Nope, afaik it doesn't inject anything but physically alters the existing code to make the disc playable in all regions

Impossible. The existing code is on a BD-ROM, and then in the BD drive's memory. The BD-ROM cannot be physically changed. And I believe that the BD drive's memory is out of reach. If both of those are true, then the only way that AnyDVD can succeed is to inject metadata into the stream that's being fetched by PowerDVD.

 

[markfilipak]

I don't know all the details, but I have these, AnyDVD-owned processes currently running in Windows:

PID 10880 = C:\Program Files (x86)\RedFox\AnyDVD\AnyDVDtray.exe
. \__ PID 11092 = C:\Program Files (x86)\RedFox\AnyDVD\ADvdDiscHlp64.exe /i
. . . . \__ PID 11104 = C:\Windows\System32\conhost.exe

That's an application: AnyDVDtray, a child: ADvdDiscHlp64, and a grandchild: conhost. I believe the grandchild is injecting into the BD stream.

 

[markfilipak]

To anyone from RedFox:
I'm not trying to reverse engineer AnyDVD. I'm simply trying to figure out what the Blu-ray Disc Region dialog is showing and what it does. It would be extremely helpful if that dialog was unambigously documented.

PS: I'm a retired engineer. I'm happy in retirement. I have no interest in AnyDVD except as a user.

PPS: I ran many projects during my career. I wrote much documentation. I would be very happy to help with AnyDVD documentation... That's a serious offer.