Day of the Dead (2008) R1 - 1:1 Clone issue with parallel layers

[Pelvis Popcan]

In the case of this parallel track path DVD, three different 1:1 sector copying programs inserted their own layer break position. CloneCD in fact inserted a radically different one than the other two applications (Nero and ImgBurn). So why can't the user decide where to insert the layer break in a 1:1 ISO/Image file? ImgBurn only allows the user to insert their own layer break position if the DVD is remastered (ripped first). Why is that I wonder?

 

[Webslinger]

So why can't the user decide where to insert the layer break in a 1:1 ISO/Image file?

In theory, if you're moving the layer break position, then it's not truly 1:1. Anyway, layer break info from Clonecd is stored in the image.dvd file, which can be edited with a text editor.

ImgBurn only allows the user to insert their own layer break position if the DVD is remastered (ripped first). Why is that I wonder?

Imgburn provides the user the option to choose what it refers to as an ideal layer break (you want to get close to the midpoint of the image file to best avoid interrupting action). The layer break needs to be moved no matter what though. I mean you can't create PTP with OTP media. For more info on that (layer break changes with imgburn) I recommend asking in the imgburn forums.

In my experience I see parallel layers far more often with data dvds instead of video. With opposite layer breaks you go from the outside of layer 0 to the outside of layer 1. With parallel, you're going from the outside of layer 0 to the inside of layer 1 (longer distance). As such, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to create a parallel layer break using double layer blank media (which is OTP) with consumer dvd burners. With PTP, often the second layer is larger, and that isn't the case with OTP (used in +R DL).

Anyway, James would be the one to best answer your questions concerning Clonecd, since I don't really have any experience using Clonecd with parallel layer breaks from dvd-videos. I suspect the backup you made using Clonecd will play fine, but I'm not sure about where the "pause" will occur during playback.

Actually, I'm a bit curious now. Where does the layer change occur while playing your backup in relation to the original disc? Does the "pause" occur at a different place in the movie with the Clonecd backup? How about with your Nero backup? I've got a feeling Clonecd translates the layer break info with PTP as best it can for OTP.

 

[Pelvis Popcan]

Where does the layer change occur with respect to backup in relation to the original disc? Does the "pause" occur at a different place in the movie with the Clonecd backup? How about with your Nero backup? I've got a feeling Clonecd translates the layer break info with PTP as bet it can for OTP.

I covered it above; I probably provided too much information.

ImgBurn says the layer change on the original DVD is:

Layer 0 Sectors: 1,841,184 (49.69%)
Layer 1 Sectors: 1,864,513 (50.31%)

It reports the same data when AnyDVD both is and is not running.


When Nero burns the 1:1 .nrg file it creates, it puts it the OTP layer break at exactly 50%, with the exact same number of sectors:

Layer 0 Sectors: 1,852,848 (50%)
Layer 1 Sectors: 1,852,848 (50%)


The .ini file created by CloneCD does not contain any layer break info. When burning the 1:1 image created by CloneCD, CloneCD puts the OTP layer break as follows:

Layer 0 Sectors: 2,086,912 (56.32%)
Layer 1 Sectors: 1,618,800 (43.68%)

What I think it may have done is burned to the outside edge for Layer 0.


Finally, when burning the 1:1 .iso file created by ImgBurn, ImgBurn does the OTP layer break as follows:

Layer 0 Sectors: 1,855,408 (50.07%)
Layer 1 Sectors: 1,850,304 (49.93%)

It's pretty clode to 50/50, but not exact like Nero was. So I'm not sure how it determined the 50.07 and 49.93.

 

[Webslinger]

I covered it above; I probably provided too much information.

ImgBurn says the layer change on the original DVD is:

Layer 0 Sectors: 1,841,184 (49.69%)
Layer 1 Sectors: 1,864,513 (50.31%)

It reports the same data when AnyDVD both is and is not running.


Nero puts it at exactly 50% with the exact same number of sectors:

Layer 0 Sectors: 1,852,848 (50%)
Layer 1 Sectors: 1,852,848 (50%)


CloneCD does the following:

Layer 0 Sectors: 2,086,912 (56.32%)
Layer 1 Sectors: 1,618,800 (43.68%)

What I think it might have done is burned to the outside edge for Layer 0.


Finally, ImgBurn did:

Layer 0 Sectors: 1,855,408 (50.07%)
Layer 1 Sectors: 1,850,304 (49.93%)

It's pretty clode to 50/50, but not exact like Nero was. So I'm not sure how it determined the 50.07 and 49.93.

I edited my post while you were replying (I was fixing my grammar). I meant to ask during playback where does the layer change occur with respect to the original movie. Do you notice a pause in the same place while playing the original disc as you do with the Clonecd backup? I am seriously very interested in your answer. I suspect based on what you just posted the answer is no, but I am curious.


Anyway, what I was trying to say previously is that it's impossible, I think, to create a 1:1 PTP backup using +R DL blank media (it will be converted to OTP in all cases due to this being a media limitation). But I strongly suspect the Clonecd backup will play fine.

 

[Pelvis Popcan]

I haven't watched the backup yet, but I will soon, I will be sure to follow up and let you know if I noticed a pause anywhere.

I suspect that the pause won't be in the main movie. I can't figure out why the studio would use parallel layers unless the movie fit 100% on the first layer then extras and such went on the second layer. (I read that studios sometimes use parallel layers to speed up access times if the layer break doesn't need to happen in the middle of video, for example, for a disc with four TV episodes, with two fitting completely on the first layer and two fitting completely on the second layer.)