Day of the Dead (2008) R1 - 1:1 Clone issue with parallel layers

Discussion in 'CloneCD' started by Pelvis Popcan, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    The R1 DVD of Day of the Dead (2008) is recorded using parallel layers instead of opposite layers (which is what is used 99% of the time):

    [​IMG]


    When making a 1:1 copy using AnyDVD 6.4.1.2 and CloneCD 5.3.1.0, it appears to successfully burn a backup, however, it changes the layers to opposite instead of preserving them as parallel. It also uses 3705712 sectors instead of 3705697. It also does not appear to set the book type... even though I used the Liteon 20A1H Bitsetting Utility 1.3.5 to always set the book type of DVD+R DL to DVD-ROM, it did not work. The Booktype stayed as DVD+R DL:

    [​IMG]


    The exact same issues occur when burning with Nero 8 using "DVD Copy" which is also a 1:1 copy function. (Nero 8 also usually sets the booktype to DVD-ROM even if the Liteon Bitsetting Utility is not used. In this case, even though Nero says that the DVD-ROM booktype was successfully set in the log, it did not actually get set to DVD-ROM and stayed as DVD+R DL.) Even though the burned DVD appears to work OK, Nero returns a "Burn Failed" error message:

    [​IMG]

    ("Disc-at-once" is the only burn option Nero gives me; the control to select anything else is greyed out.)


    The image created with Nero 8's "DVD Copy" also used a different layer break position than CloneCD did (but still changed the layers to opposite), and is 3705696 sectors, much closer to the original 3705697 sectors:

    [​IMG]

    Parallel layers seems to be a problem, but I'm not sure if the issue is with AnyDVD, my Liteon 20A1H burner, or the burning software.

    Any thoughts?

    (I'm attaching the AnyDVD and Nero logs in case it helps anyone.)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. wildthing2002

    wildthing2002 Member

    day of the dead

    me and my bud made a back up of day of the dead i no you must be wanting a dual layer copy but we shrunk it in dvd shrink and it worked perfectly
     
  3. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    Not sure if this gone work, but worth a try.

    Side note read user for Alcohol 120% guide for better assistance

    Download Alcohol 120% and install.

    Put DVD you have problem copying in drive

    Click on “image waking wizard" and make sure datatype is normal dvd, also check of data position measurement (High (when speed is asked set out to 2x to 8x between)) and copy to hardrive. Before burning mount on virtual drive and compare with original to see if you get what you want. Also Alcohol 120%has capability to convert DVD + media to DVD-ROM

    Measuring (DPM) data position measurement, will increase odd of successful image capture greatly.
     
  4. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    I am doing a 1:1 clone of Day of the Dead, not a "shrink." I only do 1:1 clones.
     
  5. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    Not sure I follow all that, but I might play around with it.

    Are home burners (I have the Liteon 20A1H) capable of burning parallel layer paths?

    I have not watched the CloneCD and Nero copies to test them, but they may be perfectly fine. It's just the main two issues (and if the copies play fine they certainly are minor issues) were:

    1) Copy changed parallel layer paths to opposite layer paths (this is the first time I have ever encountered a parallel layer DVD so in my ignorance I am probably incorrectly assuming a consumer home burner can burn parallel layer paths when they can't).

    2) Booktype setting was not changed to DVD-ROM, despite the fact that I don't have a problem setting booktype to DVD-ROM when copying the usual opposite layer path DVD's.
     
  6. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    Just tried it using ImgBurn, the read works fine, but on the write, I get this:

    [​IMG]

    That explains something. DVD+R DL blanks appear to only support opposite layer paths. So I guess the issue is really, "How best to do 1:1 clones on parallel layer DVD's?" Something I guess not many people have any experience with, due to the rarity of parallel layer path DVD's, as well as the number of people who do 1:1 clones. :(
     
  7. nebostrangla

    nebostrangla Well-Known Member

    mine booked type rom

    Summary for drive E: (AnyDVD 6.4.1.2)
    TSSTCORP CD/DVDW SH-S182M SB06 1214
    Drive (Hardware) Region: 1

    Media is a DVD.
    Booktype: dvd-rom (version 1), Layers: 2 (opposite)
    Size of first Layer: 2086912 sectors (4076 MBytes)
    Total size: 3705712 sectors (7237 MBytes)

    Video DVD (or CD) label: DAY_OF_THE_DEAD
    Media is not CSS protected.
    Video Standard: NTSC
    Media is region free.

    RCE protection not found.
    Structural copy protection not found.
    Autorun not found on Video DVD.
    Bad sector protection not found.
    Emulating RPC-2 drive with region 1!



    this is the status of the backup i made
    this was made using clone cd 5.3.1.0 booktype using nero cd/dvd speed
    so give that a try

    p.s.
    highlander-the source is the same way with the "parallel layers" and it did fine using the same method
     
  8. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    Sorry for being an idiot... but how do you set the booktype using CD/DVD Speed if you are burning with CloneCD?

    At what point during the copy / burn process do you run CD/DVD Speed?
     
  9. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Before using Clonecd . . . Click http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=327 and follow the steps


    My friend can't reproduce the problem that you're having either unfortunately (but he's not using a lite-on), so I don't know what to say.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2008
  10. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    I used ImgBurn 2.4.1.0 and it was able to set the BookType to DVD-ROM. I have no idea why bitsetting with Nero or CloneCD didn't work for this disc. (I did a backup using CloneDVD as well and it still didn't set the booktype to DVD-ROM. I use Liteon's Booktype - Bitsetting Utility 1.3.5, which is supposed to write to the drive's EEPROM and make it so that the drive always sets the bookype for every burn, regardless of the burning application, but in this case, it failed with everything I've tried so far except for ImgBurn.)

    I find it interesting how the different applications handle these parallel layers. ImgBurn used a different layer break position, as did Nero's "DVD Copy" and CloneCD.

    Nero set the layer break position at exactly 50%.

    Clone CD set it at 56.32% (I think what it did was burn to the outside edge of the disc for the first layer).

    ImgBurn reported the first layer of the original DVD as 1,841,184 (49.69%), but burned it at 1,855,408 (50.07%). I can't figure out how it determined to do this.

    Here's all the status pages from AnyDVD, ImgBurn, and DVDInfo Pro (I suggest setting the maximum images per post to 10 or 20 because it's really disruptive to legitmate posters!):

    Original:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Code:
    LITE-ON DVDRW LH-20A1H LL0D (ATA)
    Current Profile: DVD-ROM
    
    Disc Information:
    Status: Complete
    Erasable: No
    Sessions: 1
    Sectors: 3,705,697
    Size: 7,589,267,456 bytes
    Time: 823:31:22 (MM:SS:FF)
    
    TOC Information:
    Session 1...
    -> Track 01  (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 3705696)
    -> LeadOut  (LBA: 3705697)
    
    Track Information:
    Session 1...
    -> Track 01 (LTSA: 0, TS: 3705697, LRA: 0)
    
    Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
    Book Type: DVD-ROM
    Part Version: 1
    Disc Size: 120mm
    Maximum Read Rate: 10.08Mbps
    Number of Layers: 2
    Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP)
    Linear Density: 0.293 um/bit
    Track Density: 0.74 um/track
    First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
    Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 2,037,791
    Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 0
    
    Layer Information:
    Layer 0 Sectors: 1,841,184 (49.69%)
    Layer 1 Sectors: 1,864,513 (50.31%)

    Nero 8.3.2.1 "DVD Copy":

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Code:
    LITE-ON DVDRW LH-20A1H LL0D (ATA)
    Current Profile: DVD+R DL
    
    Disc Information:
    Status: Complete
    Erasable: No
    Sessions: 1
    Sectors: 3,705,696
    Size: 7,589,265,408 bytes
    Time: 823:31:21 (MM:SS:FF)
    
    TOC Information:
    Session 1...
    -> Track 01  (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 3705695)
    -> LeadOut  (LBA: 3705696)
    
    Track Information:
    Session 1...
    -> Track 01 (LTSA: 0, TS: 3705696, LRA: 0)
    
    Disc Control Blocks Information:
    LITE-ON
    
    Physical Format Information (ADIP):
    Disc ID: MKM-001-00
    Book Type: DVD+R DL
    Part Version: 1
    Disc Size: 120mm
    Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
    Number of Layers: 2
    Track Path: Opposite Track Path (OTP)
    Linear Density: 0.293 um/bit
    Track Density: 0.74 um/track
    First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
    Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 16,580,607
    Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 2,283,519
    
    Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
    Disc ID: MKM-001-00
    Book Type: DVD+R DL
    Part Version: 1
    Disc Size: 120mm
    Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
    Number of Layers: 2
    Track Path: Opposite Track Path (OTP)
    Linear Density: 0.293 um/bit
    Track Density: 0.74 um/track
    First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
    Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 16,580,607
    Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 2,049,455
    
    Layer Information:
    Layer 0 Sectors: 1,852,848 (50%)
    Layer 1 Sectors: 1,852,848 (50%)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2008
  11. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    CloneCD 5.3.1.0:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Code:
    LITE-ON DVDRW LH-20A1H LL0D (ATA)
    Current Profile: DVD+R DL
    
    Disc Information:
    Status: Complete
    Erasable: No
    Sessions: 1
    Sectors: 3,705,712
    Size: 7,589,298,176 bytes
    Time: 823:31:37 (MM:SS:FF)
    
    TOC Information:
    Session 1...
    -> Track 01  (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 3705711)
    -> LeadOut  (LBA: 3705712)
    
    Track Information:
    Session 1...
    -> Track 01 (LTSA: 0, TS: 3705712, LRA: 0)
    
    Disc Control Blocks Information:
    LITE-ON
    
    Physical Format Information (ADIP):
    Disc ID: MKM-001-00
    Book Type: DVD+R DL
    Part Version: 1
    Disc Size: 120mm
    Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
    Number of Layers: 2
    Track Path: Opposite Track Path (OTP)
    Linear Density: 0.293 um/bit
    Track Density: 0.74 um/track
    First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
    Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 16,580,607
    Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 2,283,519
    
    Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
    Disc ID: MKM-001-00
    Book Type: DVD+R DL
    Part Version: 1
    Disc Size: 120mm
    Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
    Number of Layers: 2
    Track Path: Opposite Track Path (OTP)
    Linear Density: 0.293 um/bit
    Track Density: 0.74 um/track
    First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
    Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 16,112,495
    Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 2,283,519
    
    Layer Information:
    Layer 0 Sectors: 2,086,912 (56.32%)
    Layer 1 Sectors: 1,618,800 (43.68%)

    ImgBurn 2.4.1.0:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Code:
    LITE-ON DVDRW LH-20A1H LL0D (ATA)
    Current Profile: DVD+R DL
    
    Disc Information:
    Status: Complete
    Erasable: No
    Sessions: 1
    Sectors: 3,705,712
    Size: 7,589,298,176 bytes
    Time: 823:31:37 (MM:SS:FF)
    
    TOC Information:
    Session 1...
    -> Track 01  (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 3705711)
    -> LeadOut  (LBA: 3705712)
    
    Track Information:
    Session 1...
    -> Track 01 (LTSA: 0, TS: 3705712, LRA: 0)
    
    Disc Control Blocks Information:
    LITE-ON
    
    Physical Format Information (ADIP):
    Disc ID: MKM-001-00
    Book Type: DVD+R DL
    Part Version: 1
    Disc Size: 120mm
    Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
    Number of Layers: 2
    Track Path: Opposite Track Path (OTP)
    Linear Density: 0.293 um/bit
    Track Density: 0.74 um/track
    First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
    Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 16,580,607
    Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 2,283,519
    
    Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
    Disc ID: MKM-001-00
    Book Type: DVD-ROM
    Part Version: 1
    Disc Size: 120mm
    Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
    Number of Layers: 2
    Track Path: Opposite Track Path (OTP)
    Linear Density: 0.293 um/bit
    Track Density: 0.74 um/track
    First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
    Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 16,575,503
    Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 2,052,015
    
    Layer Information:
    Layer 0 Sectors: 1,855,408 (50.07%)
    Layer 1 Sectors: 1,850,304 (49.93%)
     
  12. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    I did also try DVDFab Platinum 4.1.2.0's "Clone" to see how that worked. It read the original OK but was unable to write at all. It gives this error:

    [​IMG]


    The files it wants appear to be there:

    [​IMG]


    I don't think it handles parallel layer DVD's when using the "Clone" function.
     
  13. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    I asked about this on the ImgBurn forums, and here's something I missed:

    Layer 0 Sectors: 1,841,184 (49.69%)
    Layer 1 Sectors: 1,864,513 (50.31%)

    That's what ImgBurn reports for the original.

    Since the second layer is larger than the first, there is no way to preserve the break for opposite track paths; it would run out of space when burning the second layer.

    However, this should indicate that if the first layer is smaller than the second layer for a parallel track DVD, then ImgBurn should be able to preserve the layer break position. I'd need such a DVD to see if this is the case with CloneCD and other programs (not that I really want one :)).

    Anyway, ImgBurn allows you to manually set the layer break position and has a preview feature, so if you really want to, you can go in yourself and specify your own layer break at a spot where it's not noticeable, just like the DVD studios do.

    As a side note... if the layer change happens in the middle of video for a parallel layer path DVD, wouldn't there be a huge pause while the laser moves back to the beginning of the disc?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2008
  14. Rodster

    Rodster Well-Known Member

    I wouldnt trust Lite-On drives, it seems your drive does not support parrallel layers, if its a PC dvd burner, get a Pioneer or LG
     
  15. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    That might be something to try, but so far what I have been reading suggests that burning of parallel track paths is not possible in consumer home burners.

    So you are saying that ALL Pioneer and LG dual/double layer burners support burning of parallel track paths? If not, then which ones? And how do you know? Do you have first hand experience? I do appreciate your reply, it's just that I'd really need to know that before I bought one and went to the trouble of installing it.
     
  16. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Both Clonecd and Clonedvd do not have bitsetting features.
     
  17. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    I know:

    :agree:
     
  18. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Yeah, unfortunately, I have no idea why that's happening. I am unable to reproduce that bitsetting problem on 3 different computers and my friend can't either. So I don't believe the problem is with nero cd-dvd speed nor imgburn's bitsetting options (both appear to work). Perhaps there's some sort of weird issue being introduced with Liteon's bitsetting utility in conjunction with Anydvd. I'm not sure.

    As for discs containing parallel layers, I don't appear to have any (although I'm not going to go through my entire collection either). However, in that situation, I might be inclined to rip with Clonedvd, and then manually set the layer break position using imgburn. I'm not entirely sure yet.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2008
  19. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    I figured out my bitsetting problem.

    When Nero did this:

    [​IMG]

    It changed my drive's booktype to DVD+R DL by writing to the drive's EEPROM. I guess that must be part of "Generating DVD high compatibility borders." (That dialog is also not really true, the burn process didn't fail.)

    Anyway, after running the Liteon Booktype - Bitsetting Utility to change the booktype BACK to DVD-ROM, I can now write with CloneCD and CloneDVD with the DVD-ROM booktype set.

    Is there any way to set the layer break position on the ISO without having to remaster it (i.e., rip with CloneDVD)? It does seem to be set differently by different applications (CloneCD, Nero, and ImgBurn, as I posted above).
     
  20. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Clonecd will retain the original layer break position when it creates its default images without requiring you to remaster. However, when using parallel layers you may be out of luck based on what you've posted (and I can't find a dvd right now in my collection that uses parallel layers).