Copying Double Density Discs

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by taylormade, Jul 2, 2007.

  1. taylormade

    taylormade New Member

    Am I able to copy Double Density DVD's with any Slysoft product, If I only have a single density drive?
     
  2. roog

    roog Well-Known Member

    Single density should only be for writing not reading so you can still back them up on your hard drive. Writing them is not possible, without a lot of effort, unless they are less than 25GB in size.


    What drive do you have?
     
  3. taylormade

    taylormade New Member

    drive type

    Lite-On DVDRW LH-20A1H
     
  4. taylormade

    taylormade New Member

    shrink them

    I am aware of other software that shrinks DD DVD's down to fit on a Single.
    Wondered if any SlyFox software did that.
     
  5. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Clonedvd compresses.

    For double layer discs, I would recommend using Verbatim +R DL made in Singapore with Clonecd.

    Both solutions require the use of Anydvd running in the background.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  6. deaacs

    deaacs Well-Known Member

    Same as me :)

    This is a dual-layer burner, so you can burn onto dual-layer discs, you can also use Nero (comes with the drive) to reduce the size. You can also use LtnRPC.exe to permanently remove region coding from the DVD Drive, the process is reversible (though why you'd want to I don't know!) I also recommend upgrading to the latest firmware if you haven't already; although liteon builds good drives they're somewhat lazy with releasing good firmware.

    LtnRPC is here: http://digi.rpc1.org/rpc.htm (do not use Rpcde2 it's not for burners)
    And the latest firmware is here: http://www.liteonit.com/DOWNLOADS/ODD/LH-20A1H/firmware/RW20LL0B.zip

    Personally I always recommend using Taiyo Yuden media, or Ritek. I won't let my drive touch inferior media!
     
  7. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Ritek should be avoided. Much of it is horrible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  8. roog

    roog Well-Known Member

    Your original post was in the AnyDVD HD forum, so I gave you a HD DVD/Blu-ray answer.

    ClonedDVD will reduce the size to single-layer if you want it to but, like Webslinger, I recommend that you use DL discs instead (Yes, as Aractus said, your drive supports double-layer).

    Before the price of DL discs came down, I made the mistake of recoding everything for single-layer. Now I'm having to go back and re-rip every movie to restore the original quality.

    BTW, Slysoft software is great! It makes doing what you want to do with your media easy.
     
  9. deaacs

    deaacs Well-Known Member

    Well, with low-end hardware dvd players compatibility can be an issue, but with decent players it's really great value. Ritek is targeted by fake media from the "grey" market (so has Taiyo Yuden) but this should not be confused with the real stuff. If the Riteks don't do it for you, then you may as well go with Taiyo Yuden, it's less expensive then "Verbatim" and slightly better quality too.

    Verbatim don't make their own discs (Verbatim is not a Singaporean company, so they must sub-contract those discs to be made, assuming the discs are produced in Singapore as Webslinger says). I would use slower speed media if choosing Ritek, 4x is their best; and if you're on a budget can work out to be excellent value. I only have 4x media right now, but ideally I'd keep 4x media for general-purpose burning, and 16x media for when I'm in a hurry. 4x may sound obsolete, but is better quality (I think the industry has rushed the speeds and is playing catch-up). 8x is probably just as good, but it's not like I burn disc-after-disc and care if I save 10 minutes burning time, because it's very rare that I'd be waiting to burn a 2nd disc! In an ideal world I'd even go as far to use +R discs for DATA use... but as I don't burn many data discs, I use -R always (+R isn't a real DVD format anyway; and just like bluray/hddvd it's bad for the consumer because even though competition is good, incompatibility is not).

    Another common cause of failures is the use of stickers instead of direct-printing onto the disc's surface, which you should never do.

    I buy my media from JPL... going on their prices for inkjet printable discs...

    250 Verbatim - $138.00 = $0.552/disc

    100 Taiyo Yuden - $55.00 = $0.55/disc

    You don't have to buy as many Taiyo Yuden discs to get the same value - AND those Taiyo Yuden discs are 16x, the Verbatim ones are only 8x. My conclusion is that the Taiyo Yuden discs are far better value, but I would still swear by 4x Ritek media as possibly being the best overall value.
     
  10. customshopkv1

    customshopkv1 Well-Known Member

    I don't believe Ritek has the self life or consistency of Verbatim or TY. There are lots of "Media Ratings" on the internet. Websligner could post those here. You'll see everyone (almost) agrees on Verbatim, TY, Maxell BQ as being the best.
     
  11. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Ritek is pretty low quality stuff (especially the 8x dvd-r and +R DLs). Right up there with Princo. People who know what they're doing in the burning community tend to avoid Ritek.


    Verbatim is a subsidiary of Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation of Japan, whose plant in Singapore makes DL and RW media.

    Verbatim +R DL and its RW line is made by Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation's plant in Singapore (with the exception of some of the newer +R DL being made in India, which I have so far, managed to avoid). Verbatim +R DL made in Singapore is the only +R DL blank media worth using.


    If Verbatim media is made in Taiwan, it's made by CMC or Prodisc.
    If Verbatim media is made in India, it's made by MBIL (Moser Baer).
    If Verbatim media is made in Japan, it's most likely made by Taiyo Yuden (Yuden000T02 16x dvd+r made in Japan and sold under Verbatim's label, for example).
    If it's made in Singapore, then it's made by Mitsubishi's plant (usually limited to RW and DL media).

    Of these choices, I like what I've seen from Mitsubishi's plant in Singapore the best.

    The CMC and Prodisc Verbatim media is also held to higher standards than the blank media made under those names for other companies.

    RitekG04 isn't horrible (almost decent; so I don't completely disagree with you as far as RG04 goes). However, once you move into the faster (8x dvd-r) lines, Ritek is horrible (especially for longevity . . yet another example of the digitalfaq being outdated) and should almost always be avoided; Ritek is not quality blank media, and mentioning Ritek/Ridata in the same breath as Verbatim is almost laughable. Ritek +R DL sold under Memorex's (and others') name is, in particular, junk.

    "Ritek is "ok" if you only need your media to last 2-6 months or so. Keeping in mind some Ritek DVD-R media has been known to fail in less then 2 months...

    Ritek DVD+R media is "ok", and usually lasts longer then 6 months. But it's not so great compared to Taiyo Yuden or Verbatim"

    --The Digital Dolphin (mod and reviewer at cdrlabs, former mod at cdrinfo . . . and one of the few people who burns and tests blank media on an industrial level . . . ): http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1466415&postcount=24

    RG05 already has a reputation of failing in under 2 years; RitekF1 has Fuji dye, and it's supposed to be a lot better than the dye in G05. Time will tell. Regardless, the smart money is on avoiding Ritek.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  12. deaacs

    deaacs Well-Known Member

    Here is a review of the burner we're talking about, burning different media:

    http://www.cdfreaks.com/reviews/Lite-On-LH-20A1H-DVD-Burner-Review/DVD-R_RW-Writing-Performance.html

    Compare the Ritek result to the Verbatim result:

    Code:
    Brand:
     Traxdata – Thanks to Conrexx Europe for sending us this media.
     
    Manufacturer:
     RiTEK
     
    Code:
     RITEK F1
     
    Disc Type:
     DVD-R
     
    Capacity:
     4483MB
     
    Certified Speed:
     16x
     
    Write Speed:
     16x
     
    Write Time:
     5m:50s
     
    PI-8 errors Average/Sec:
     2.94
     
    PI-1 failures (PIF) Avg/Sec:
     0.09
    Code:
    Brand:
     Traxdata ValuePack
     
    Manufacturer:
     RiTEK
     
    Code:
     RITEK F1
     
    Disc Type:
     DVD-R
     
    Capacity:
     4483MB
     
    Certified Speed:
     16x
     
    Write Speed:
     16x
     
    Write Time:
     5m:50s
     
    PI-8 errors Average/Sec:
     7.81
     
    PI-1 failures (PIF) Avg/Sec:
     0.05
    Code:
    Brand:
     Verbatim Photo Printable – Thanks to Verbatim (UK) for sending us this media.
     
    Manufacturer:
     Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation
     
    Code:
     MCC 03R G20
     
    Disc Type:
     DVD-R
     
    Capacity:
     4483MB
     
    Certified Speed:
     16x
     
    Write Speed:
     18x
     
    Write Time:
     5m:28s
     
    PI-8 errors Average/Sec:
     2.63
     
    PI-1 failures (PIF) Avg/Sec:
     0.08
    Code:
    Brand:
     Verbatim - Thanks to Verbatim (UK)
    for sending us this media.
     
    Manufacturer:
     Mitsubishi Kagaku Media
     
    Code:
     MKM 01RW 6X01
     
    Disc Type:
     DVD-RW
     
    Capacity:
     4483MB
     
    Certified Speed:
     6x
     
    Write Speed:
     6x
     
    Write Time:
     11m:03s
     
    PI-8 errors Average/Sec:
     7.68
     
    PI-1 failures (PIF) Avg/Sec:
     0.00
    Yes I'm sure Verbatim is better quality... however Ritek burns very well on the dirve, and the media is half the price. I'd also bet that the Ritek-branded (or unbranded printable discs) would be better quality then the Traxdata-branded stuff. RITEK G05... yes rubbish (but it still reads fine and anyway the RiDisc stuff is known to be a poor quality example of the G05). G04 was much, much better, I've had no problems with it not lasting. Of course not all G04's were equal.. but that is a discussion for another day. G05 was a proven formula, and when manufactured correctly was excellent quality. One bad dye doesn't mean all their discs suck. I wouldn't recommend their re-branded discs either, because it is true that you can get anything from utter crap-grade to B-grade (yes, I've always considered Ritek "B-Grade"). Anyway, I can see why you don't like the brand.

    Thanks for the additional info on Verbatim. The longest-lasting discs, are still Taiyo Yuden, but again I'm sure Verbatim isn't far behind and one day might be better. Competition is good, and makes them better discs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  13. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Ok, so Verbatim had less errors, on average, in all cases than Ritek (you included a RW test, but didn't include the RW test with Ritek). G05, as I noted, should generally be avoided. I'm not arguing whether it's possible to produce decent burn quality with Ritek media. What I call into question is how long that burn quality will last.


    Wouldn't be too difficult. And I agree. As I said before, G04 wasn't horrible (decent, on average; and sometimes good).

    The question is whether it will last as long as similarly rated (speed rating) Verbatim blank media.


    No. Unless you're talking about Taiyo Yuden's That's Triple Guard (which I haven't been able to find), many will last longer than 16x TY Premiums, including Maxell Broadcast Quality, Verbatim Ultralife Gold 8x DVD-R, Maxell Plus (this was TYG02 on occasion though), and Verbatim (Verbatim did not suffer from the same bonding issues found occasionally on TYs 16x Premium line). Inital burn quality on TY Premium is usually better than all other brands (how long that lasts for though is in question). TYs 8x Premium line, however, is excellent.

    Here's one (Japanese) individual's UV test:

    http://dvd-r.jpn.org/beam/index.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  14. deaacs

    deaacs Well-Known Member

    It's not my website, don't ask me how they chose the media and decided what speeds to burn them at.
    ...hmmm, I don't think this will go anywhere fast; as far as you and I know Ritek's F1 could last 100 years - but you can't TEST that, and you can't test it for T-Y or Verbatim either. All you can go by is experience and what it's designed for. At any rate, no DVD-R will ever last forever, no CD-R will and no HD-DVD or BluRay-R's will either (especially not BluRay as it's burnt closer to the surface!) There's probably only a certain number of times you could read -R material too, before the data becomes too difficult for the laser to read.

    If the F1 Ritek dye only lasts 2 years, then it will suck. But we'll have to wait and see, after all Verbatim could do the same thing and switch to a new dye designed to last longer that actually doesn't.
     
  15. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    The Ritek RW media test was included at cdfreaks. If your point is that most of the Ritek media with the exception of G05 burned reasonably well, then, I agree. Regardless, Ritek +R DL media, and 8x Ritek dvd-r should be avoided.

    I doubt that much, and I don't have much hope for most discs in general lasting longer than 20 years.

    However, The Digital Dolphin's tests should prove interesting:
    http://cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=21953&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0
    when the results are published.


    Yes, you can. Longevity studies have been published in the past for cd-r media, proving that "phthalocyanine combined with a gold-silver alloy as a reflective layer was consistently more stable than all other types of CD-R media". visit http://www.film-to-video.com/study/StabilityStudy.htm

    Similar tests can also be done for dvd blank media (and people could be very specific with brand names and media codes if they wanted to).

    But those are stress tests/advanced aging tests. What the Digital Dolphin is doing hasn't been done (no advanced age testing). He's not subjecting blank discs to nasty stuff. So the results of his testing (which has caught the eyes of Sony and other companies) will be interesting.


    I base my recommendations on my personal quality blank media tests, longevity tests, and the tests of others whom I trust in the online community. I don't think you're going to find very many people slamming Verbatim (although some of the PAP6 and MAP6 serials from CMC sold under Verbatim's name were disturbing to say the least, but the entire batch/line wasn't affected).

    I agree with you here 100%.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  16. deaacs

    deaacs Well-Known Member

    Fair enough - I'd use A-Grade media for RW anyway, not Ritek.
    CD-R's haven't even existed yet for 20 years.
    Yes but still under controlled conditions which do not fully represent real-time longevity. It's true those tests may indicate which discs will last longer in real life - but it still will never prove with certainty how long they will last in real life. The test you're looking at won't highlight the possibly variance in quality, nor the actual average degradation times as the test samples are so small - but it looks interesting, and should yield some tangible results (it's like testing sun damage on cars using mirrors - it's not a perfect representation of a real life timeline).

    Personally I'm far more worried about BluRay winning over HD-DVD; as their disc structure is compromised to squeeze higher quality out of it; and you can bet that the day will come when everyone agrees that HD-DVD recordable media is higher quality then BluRay-R/RW.
     
  17. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    Yes. And I'm skeptical most will (blank dvd-r media, even less so).

    I agree. Too many variables (but as you say, it should provide some indication of which discs should last longer) . . .

    Which one? Both the NIST study and the other one I linked to did not use tiny sample sizes.

    Oh, that Japanese test. Yeah, that's just one individual's study. I think most people could punch holes through it very easily. However, the results haven't overtly surprised me (with a couple of exceptions . . . how does "D" suddenly turn into "A" . . .).

    I know it's considered sacrilegious of me to say so on these forums, but I am not greatly worried about this format "war" (If James reads this, he'll probably want to smack me). That said, I am not fond of all these crazy restrictions on Blu-Ray (if BD+ requires people to update their firmware frequently . . . *sigh* I really don't understand why they feel that won't inconvenience the consumer), and having the data layer so close to the outside does present some concerns.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2007
  18. roog

    roog Well-Known Member

    Webslinger, I think you found the fast track to Ritek customer service.;)
     
  19. deaacs

    deaacs Well-Known Member

    Yes I'm sure they're good at averages.
    The problem with BR isn't that the data is closer to the surface, but that it's an imperfect format that's been compromised to achieve a higher amount of storage (the process through which discs are pressed -or recording media is made is much more complex, hence more things can go wrong). At the same time, their players, although more expensive have lower standards then HD-DVD ones. I think that the early days, which we're in, at the moment will be bad for BluRay, because it will establish their reputation; and all the hype about the "quality" will lead to customer dissatisfaction. Especially when customers begin to realize the BD discs aren't using the full storage potential anyway.
     
  20. Webslinger

    Webslinger Retired Moderator

    The NIST study (and others) have been conclusive as far as phthalocyanine dye resistance to UV goes. And organic chemistry studies on the subject also show this. It has nothing to do with averages: it's a scientific fact.

    It is a problem especially if the top coating starts to go (when the top/scratch coatings of cd-rs start to flake, you generally still have a shot at getting the data backed up):

    http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/16/blu-ray-disc-coatings-starting-to-rot/

    With Blu-ray even slight scratches can present serious problems.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2007