Cinavia and a third-party product

[cokebottle99]

The other user was talking about a poster on MyCE calling himself "Cienoway," who claims he singlehandedly developed perfect Cinavia removal without releasing any code to prove it. He then later posted that he "got raided by the feds" again offering no further info or proof of this. Frankly I classify this person as a nut.

To be fair, Cienoway has been put to the test. He is legit. heres what it sounds like.... He was given a sample and proved he can remove Cinavia. As far as a "perfect" solution is concerned...that remains to be seen. Now ranger on the other hand...has refused.

 

[rotty dog]

To be fair, Cienoway has been put to the test. He is legit. heres what it sounds like.... He was given a sample and proved he can remove Cinavia. As far as a "perfect" solution is concerned...that remains to be seen. Now ranger on the other hand...has refused.

Don't you understand Cokebottle, he has NOT been put to the test, ANYBODY can make the Cinavia Watermark unreadable, that has been known for about as long as it has been in existence, his result is NO achievement whatsoever.

This method will never work, it will always detract the audio.

If you think that this method can be improved to the point that it is acceptable then you are very much mistaken.

 

[cokebottle99]

This method will never work, it will always detract the audio.

If your referring to the sample...it has been verified by the people at MyCe including me. If he cheated, the truth will be known. Keep in mind, he was a "Verance employee" so he would have a good idea what needs to be done, but that's just me giving him the benefit of the doubt.

If you think that this method can be improved to the point that it is acceptable then you are very much mistaken.

I reserve my judgment. Time will tell.

 

[rotty dog]

If your referring to the sample...it has been verified by the people at MyCe including me. If he cheated, the truth will be known. Keep in mind, he was a "Verance employee" so he would have a good idea what needs to be done, but that's just me giving him the benefit of the doubt.




I reserve my judgment. Time will tell.

I have only one question, "Do you want to buy a Dollar Bill printing machine?"

 

[cokebottle99]

I have only one question, "Do you want to buy a Dollar Bill printing machine?"

I'm sorry you feel that way. I obviously don't want to get on the wrong foot here. What I don't understand is, what's with the negativity against a Cinavia solution? We already know Cinavia free hardware exists but, curing it would be nice. It's like if someone has cancer...why not cure cancer, as apposed to telling someone not to worry about it since it doesn't happen to everyone.

 

[rotty dog]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I obviously don't want to get on the wrong foot here. What I don't understand is, what's with the negativity against a Cinavia solution? We already know Cinavia free hardware exists but, curing it would be nice. It's like if someone has cancer...why not cure cancer, as apposed to telling someone not to worry about it since it doesn't happen to everyone.

Its the claims that Cinavia has been broken and the there has been some sort of achievement against this, there has NOT been. That's the problem, the false claims.

Im sure you believe me when I say I would love that to not be the case.

 

[Roycal]

You are confusing two completely different things. DVD Ranger's Products are called "CinEx" and "CinEx HD." "CineEX HD" uses the copyrighted audio, and so far, they have not gotten raided.

The other user was talking about a poster on MyCE calling himself "Cienoway," who claims he singlehandedly developed perfect Cinavia removal without releasing any code to prove it. He then later posted that he "got raided by the feds" again offering no further info or proof of this. Frankly I classify this person as a nut.

Thanks for that clarification. The failure biz model I was referring to was replacing the audio track(s) with a Cinavia free version that was released under copyright protections. That would seem to be an obvious copyright violation, i.e. re-distributing actual copies of a copyrighted work without the licenses. There is no way that could work except totally underground and illegal.

So who was raided? If it was an actual Cinavia software hacker, that would not be surprising either depending on what country he/she was in and how he/she handled it. The same thing happened to the Norwegian teenager who first cracked CSS but had already proved that it worked. With Cinavia, no one seems to have proven anything so far.

 

[Roycal]

It's like if someone has cancer...why not cure cancer, as apposed to telling someone not to worry about it since it doesn't happen to everyone.

Please drop the reference to cancer as Cinavia has nothing to do with cancer.

So far, all everyone hears about is "raids" and short samples of "Cinavia free" audio that is limited to 2 channels and rumours that the hacker was a Cinavia insider....

All that propaganda is hearsay, and sounds like it was created to manifest some imaginary hacker solution. i.e, a con to extract money from naïve people.
Most genuine hackers don't need that kind of propaganda, the smart ones just produce working code under the radar and it just works.

If this alleged hacker really had a working solution, he/she would have at least a few credible beta testers verifying that it worked before trying to sell it to the public.
So far it sounds like a scam with a lot of propaganda to prop up the deception.

 

[Cienoway]

To be fair, Cienoway has been put to the test. He is legit. heres what it sounds like.... He was given a sample and proved he can remove Cinavia. As far as a "perfect" solution is concerned...that remains to be seen. Now ranger on the other hand...has refused.

Listening to my old sample I can not help being amazed how much progress I have made in improving the audio quality of my method. Here is a later version of the same audio sample. You listen and make the judgement:
Old One
New one [URL="http://www.firedrive.com/file/72EBC6A21F81D1A1"]

Now, even that is not the latest and best result. It was state of the art of early March, 2014. I am still trying to polish the method and there are still very big room for improvement. I just can not dedicate too much time into this alone. But I must say that the basic science that Cinavia itself was based on was broken, not just Cinavia. The same method removes also audio watermarks from Digimarc or any similar watermarks. The break has absolutely nothing to do with trade secret leak or insider knowledge, contrary to Verance Claim. You know what? Verance already stealthily told people how to defeat their technology by their own name, Verance, which can be mutated to Revance, or reverberance, or reveberation, or whatever. But the original name is no longer recognizable, all you recognize is reverberation, a sound effect that Cinavia watermark is based on. What an irony!.

Verance cannot hope to circumvent effective Cinavia removal by tweaking embedding parameters or invent a new set of stego key or other trade secret parameters. My method is future proof. An infinitely many possible varieties can be developed once you learn the basic principle. I am working on the 4th method right now and I am not willing to release any sample yet.

Let me give Verance some help. I know how to develop a much more effective watermarking technology against removal. They will have to go back to the drawing board by go back more than 20 years back. They will have to invent a watermark technology which does NOT even use digital bits of 0s or 1s. Anything that uses bits like 0s or 1s at all, can and will be effectively erased simply and easily, without insider knowledge.

 

[Loonier]

Place your bets, please.
Who believes Ingo "the savior" Förster will respond in this thread ?
http://club.myce.com/f62/fao-dvd-ranger-336455/

 

[SamuriHL]

LOL. Breath....not being held.

 

[Loonier]

Sorry, i forgot that the OP first has to prove he's worthy to get a response.
For example by writing his own wipe.. er, white paper

 

[Roycal]

Place your bets, please.
Who believes Ingo "the savior" Förster will respond in this thread ?
http://club.myce.com/f62/fao-dvd-ranger-336455/

Very good question as this is their suspected "Cinavia Fix" by replacing the audio with the DVD version of audio which is a complete violation of copyright laws and will never work as a business model. It's just like redistributing the movie itself.

AnyDVD does not have that issue because it doesn't actually redistribute content.

 

[cokebottle99]

Very good question as this is their suspected "Cinavia Fix" by replacing the audio with the DVD version of audio which is a complete violation of copyright laws and will never work as a business model. It's just like redistributing the movie itself.

He's not using the DVD version...that length of the video is inadequate to the Blu-ray releases. He is using the VOD version. Which have no cinavia.

And Cienoway's method trick...what he is doing is, he's corrupting 40 milliseconds for every 1000 milliseconds (1000 Milliseconds=1 second) and, using -6 pitch shift to successfully mask the watermark.

You don't have to thank me, no one ever else does.

 

[Steve55]

He's not using the DVD version...that length of the video is inadequate to the Blu-ray releases. He is using the VOD version. Which have no cinavia.

And Cienoway's method trick...what he is doing is, he's corrupting 40 milliseconds for every 1000 milliseconds (1000 Milliseconds=1 second) and, using -6 pitch shift to successfully mask the watermark.

You don't have to thank me, no one ever else does.

I'll thank you! Interesting to know.

 

[Loonier]

@cokebottle99
May i ask where you've acquired both information ?
Especially the details about how Cienoway operates (considering he wants to turn his idea into cash).

 

[cokebottle99]

@cokebottle99
May i ask where you've acquired both information ?
Especially the details about how Cienoway operates (considering he wants to turn his idea into cash).

As far as ranger is concerned...as long as he doesn't provide a "do it your self" removal with excellent quality...the conspiracy theorists theory statement still stands. And regards to Cienoway solution, my discovery it's based on audio analysis. I wanted Cienoway to succeed but he has been throwing this FBI thing around & beating around the bush...I've given up. But there's always hope

 

[Loonier]

Sorry, regarding Ranger i meant: why do you think it's VOD, and not an adapted DVD version ?

 

[Roycal]

And Cienoway's method trick...what he is doing is, he's corrupting 40 milliseconds for every 1000 milliseconds (1000 Milliseconds=1 second) and, using -6 pitch shift to successfully mask the watermark.

You don't have to thank me, no one ever else does.

I will thank you when and if it really ever works. Cinavia was designed to resist modest audio distortions. The only way that method might work is if the exact locations of the watermarks were known. And that's assuming the watermark doesn't permeate the entire audio tracks.

So far a lot of talk and not that much proof.

 

[Roycal]

He's not using the DVD version...that length of the video is inadequate to the Blu-ray releases. He is using the VOD version. Which have no cinavia.

One other minor point, it doesn't matter if it's the blu-ray or DVD release, the play lengths are normally the same (unless specifically noted otherwise). The audio normally matches up regardless if it's a blu-ray versus the DVD version. And there are a lot of known releases like that (i.e. BluRay has Cinavia and DVD does not). So far that is the oldest and illegal trick in the book to circumvent Cinavia.

BTW, afraid to ask, but what is the "VOD Version"?