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Bit exact audio in Reclock without any resampling

yesgrey3

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James,
I have found the way to make it less painful to you... I have done it! It's working!:)

How?
Simple. I created a new Resampler version that instead of resampling the sound just copies the input to the output.
With this version, when I set my soundcard's clock to 46080Hz, I get perfect pitch without any resampling (PAL movies). If we use reclock in Kernel Streaming mode we also bypass kmixer, so with this resampler.dll version it's possible to get perfect audio synchronized with video.

I have learned from the RME technical support that we can set the clock frequency through the API, but I think that has to be made inside reclock's code. If reclock would be able to set the soundcard's clok frequency automatically, the dream will come true... video smoothness, exact frame rate, exact pitch and bit perfect audio, all at the same time! But for this I will need your help. I think it would be just a couple of lines, nothing too complicated nor time consuming.;)
Just let me know if you are interested in adding this feature to reclock.
I can live with my little workaround, so no pressure.:)

Edit: James was kind enough to add two registry keys to avoid the use of the resampler.dll file modded by me that does not resample, and to make it a little more user friendly. You can read more about it here.
This way, the resampling could be by-passed, and reclock could try to set the clock frequency that we need, in case our soundcard's drivers allow it. You will need Reclock 1.8.4.4 or higher, and you should not use the resampler.dll that I linked previously, because you will not need it anymore.

If anyone is willing to try this, here are the instructions:
For reclock to work flawlessly you have to set your display refresh rate to an exact multiple of 24.0 (48.0Hz, 72.0Hz) and your soundcard's clock frequency to the frequency indicated in reclock's dialog: 46080Hz for any video with 25fps (PAL movies) and 48048Hz for any video with 23.976fps (Blu-ray movies and NTSC movies after inverse telecine). For this, you will have to use a soundcard that supports these clock frequencies (I know that both RME Fireface and RME HDSP series support it).

I have created 3 files that will set those 2 registry keys for three possible scenarios:
Reclock_Default.reg: reclock's default.
Reclock_PAL.reg: reclock will bypass resampling and set the soundcard's clock to 46080Hz.
Reclock_Blu-ray.reg: reclock will bypass resampling and set the soundcard's clock to 48048Hz.
Here is a pack with the 3 files:View attachment reg_files.zip
(If you open the files with a file editor, you'll notice that the clock frequency are set in hexadecimal. If you want to create your own reg files for other frequencies, don't forget to convert the frequency you want to hexadecimal.)

If your soundcard's drivers allow the change, you only need to run the registry file accordingly with your needs, if your soundcard's drivers do not allow the change, you have to set the clock manually, but still run the registry file to bypass the reclock's internal resampler.
This solution of 3 registry files is great because you could switch from one mode to another just by clicking in the respective file. I kept them on my desktop.;)

Note for RME users:
You have to set the "Clock Mode" in the drivers dialog to "Master".
If you want reclock to automatically set the clock frequency, just disable DDS in the drivers DDS tab.
If you prefer to set the clock yourself manually, you should enable DDS and select the desired clock frequency in the DDS tab.

Here is a picture with reclock's dialog and cpu usage dialog when using reclock with the software resampler:
with_resampling.jpg

And here is a picture with reclock's dialog and cpu usage dialog when bypassing the software resampler and changing the soundcard's clock:
no_resampling.JPG
 
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too bad it takes a $800 RME card :doh:

What about an older one like mine? Digi96/8 PST?

Would this "work around" work on this card? The driver does not seem to support KS, IOW, the RME does not show as an option in the KS dropdown.
 
What about an older one like mine? Digi96/8 PST?

Would this "work around" work on this card? The driver does not seem to support KS, IOW, the RME does not show as an option in the KS dropdown.
well does it have a proper headphones output? lemme google up

it doesn't mean anything if you don't have any entry in the KS dropdown, I didn't either on Vista yet it worked.
 
I have updated my first post with some pictures.
 
What about an older one like mine? Digi96/8 PST?

Would this "work around" work on this card?

No. Only RME cards with "SteadyClock(TM)" technology would work.
 
leeperry,
I'm getting with haali renderer:
- <1ms jitter for PAL dvd
- <5ms jitter for Blu-ray
Is this good?
 
leeperry,
I'm getting with haali renderer:
- <1ms jitter for PAL dvd
- <5ms jitter for Blu-ray
Is this good?
jitter is always excellent w/ 25fps material...try w/ 23.976 instead :D

also what matters is how much it drifts over 2H, getting low jitter is easy....keeping it controlled is another story altogether.

w/ the nvidia 9600, I'm getting 4ms of jitter/hour, which is just fine btw :D

so there's no way to simply slow down the sound(eg.48000>46080Hz for PAL speeddown) w/o resampling....is there ?

I believe my soundcard will output any frequency, not just 22050/32/44100/48/96 :eek:
 
try w/ 23.976 instead :D
The Blu-ray number is 23.976, but at 24.0fps.

so there's no way to simply slow down the sound(eg.48000>46080Hz for PAL speeddown) w/o resampling....is there?
Yes, what I'm doing right now. Haven't you understood it? So your better bet is start saving for a RME card...;)

I believe my soundcard will output any frequency, not just 22050/32/44100/48/96 :eek:
The problem is not the output, is the clock frequency. The majority of the soundcards only support the standard levels, and some only support one or two clock frequencies, and then resample everything to their internal clock (you are always saying that your card resamples everything to 96kHz...). Only higher priced cards allow real clock frequency fine tuning, like the RME cards.
 
The problem is not the output, is the clock frequency. The majority of the soundcards only support the standard levels, and some only support one or two clock frequencies, and then resample everything to their internal clock (you are always saying that your card resamples everything to 96kHz...). Only higher priced cards allow real clock frequency fine tuning, like the RME cards.
hehe ok, but they don't have a simple stereo sound card -external if possible - w/ headphones output....so I'm SOL I guess :eek:

oh well, the new Reclock resampler sounds fine, and I ruin the sound w/ Ozone4 anyway :D

it gives a slightly compressed and very impressive 3D-like sound w/ headphones...w/ zillions of settings, just the way I like it 8)

f0024525_49713e0ebe060.jpg
 
hehe ok, but they don't have a simple stereo sound card -external if possible - w/ headphones output....so I'm SOL I guess :eek:
Yes they have, of course is their definition of simple...;)
See here.

It's less than 400eur, and since lots of professional users prefer to buy the new models, you could always try to get one in second hand for even less...;)
 
tempting, tempting kyoji.gif

so how's the jitter after 2H in HR w/ 23.976@24 or 48 ? :policeman:
 
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oh well, the new Reclock resampler sounds fine, and I ruin the sound w/ Ozone4 anyway :D

it gives a slightly compressed and very impressive 3D-like sound w/ headphones...w/ zillions of settings, just the way I like it 8)

f0024525_49713e0ebe060.jpg

leeperry - how do you get Ozone 4 into the processing path ?

Tony
 
tempting, tempting
And the HDSP 9632 has better DAC chips than the FF400. I only bought the FF400 because I wanted to use it for watching my movies, and is better running only one 4m cable (firewire) to my amplifier than 6 4m cables.And for 6 channel output we also need to buy an add-on card, so the price difference was not so big; but you only need headphones output...;)
so how's the jitter after 2H in HR w/ 23.976@24 or 48 ? :policeman:
Sorry, but I haven't found the time yet to watch a movie... too busy with all these programming stuff.:(
 
@yesgrey3 : these things are pretty damn pricey, but I'll think about it :agree:

also I'd need an external card w/ a volume knob coz you can't change the volume in bit-perfect....so I'd need a headphones amp on top of it :eek:

I'd rather upgrade my pj first, like getting an HD81 or sumthing....it looks like Mitsubishi has totally given up on DLP :mad:
leeperry - how do you get Ozone 4 into the processing path ?
through FFX-4 in ffdshow, in 32 float 8)
 
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@yesgrey3 : these things are pretty damn pricey, but I'll think about it
As I said, you could try getting one second hand for a lot less...;)
I'd rather upgrade my pj first
I agree with you, it will make a bigger difference. The vision requires about 80% of the brain processing power used in processing the info from all 5 senses. When you are watching a movie, only 5% are used for the hearing. When you are only listening, then it would be 25%, which could increase more if you can abstract from the other senses.;)
So, it's more wise use 80% of your available cash to improve the projector than to improve the soundcard.:D
 
As I said, you could try getting one second hand for a lot less...
well ebay didn't yield much results, I'll try to have a look on the french audiofanzine website classifieds.
I agree with you, it will make a bigger difference. The vision requires about 80% of the brain processing power used in processing the info from all 5 senses. When you are watching a movie, only 5% are used for the hearing. When you are only listening, then it would be 25%, which could increase more if you can abstract from the other senses.
So, it's more wise use 80% of your available cash to improve the projector than to improve the soundcard.
haha! so where do these figures come from...if I may ask :D
anyway yeah, I'm constantly blown away by my calibrated HC3100 on a 2 meters wide projection screen(thanks to your gamut conversion thingie)....and I usually have a hard time analyzing the audio while I'm busy staying in awe in front of the picture :doh:

but the "garbage in=garbage out" saying has never been so true as w/ PC audio.....I've upgraded my DT770 stock cable w/ a very high end dual shielded 7N-OFC blabla cable, and the SQ is night & day :eek:

so I guess using top notch bit-perfect DAC's and no resampling in Reclock would be even more mind blowing :agree:

PS: so the RME "DIGI" serie is no good ? only FF/Hammerfall?
 
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haha! so where do these figures come from...if I may ask :D
A friend of mine, who is a doctor, has told me so. Apparently some tests were made about it, and the raw numbers are these. When the vision is being processed at full capacity, is 80% for vision, and equal percentages for the other senses (5% each). If the vision is off (eyes closed), the percentages remain equal, and then it jumps to 25% each of the other four. These are not exact numbers, I believe is just some raw aproximation.;)
PS: so the RME "DIGI" serie is no good ? only FF/Hammerfall?
Yes; FF/Hammerfall DSP; All models that use "Steadyclock(tm)" technology. It's better looking at the models: FF400, FF800 and HDSP9632.

As a side note, I want to state that I have no relation with RME. I'm only an audio/video enthusiast that bought a RME FF400, nothing more.

I would also like to say that there are other PC solutions that allow the setting of the clock frequency. As an example, you can take a look at the Lynx Studio soundcards.
Several users report that the Lynx's sound better than the RME.
I prefered the RME because here in Europe they're cheaper than the Lynx (RME are from Germany and Lynx from USA), and Lynx's firewire model is too expensive.

leeperry, for you should be the Lynx L22 model.;)
 
James,
I have found the way to make it less painful to you... I have done it! It's working!:)

How?
Simple. I created a new Resampler version that instead of resampling the sound just copies the input to the output.
With this version, when I set my soundcard's clock to 46080Hz, I get perfect pitch without any resampling (PAL movies). If we use reclock in Kernel Streaming mode we also bypass kmixer, so with this resampler.dll version it's possible to get perfect audio synchronized with video.

I have learned from the RME technical support that we can set the clock frequency through the API, but I think that has to be made inside reclock's code. If reclock would be able to set the soundcard's clok frequency automatically, the dream will come true... video smoothness, exact frame rate, exact pitch and bit perfect audio, all at the same time! But for this I will need your help. I think it would be just a couple of lines, nothing too complicated nor time consuming.;)
Just let me know if you are interested in adding this feature to reclock.
I can live with my little workaround, so no pressure.:)
Brilliant. You can add this to your resampler.dll, as the sampling rate is set by ReClock.
 
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