BD/HD DVD ISO Image Creation

[Humpa]

imgburn doesn't seem to pad for me. I've converted about 6 blu-ray's that I had ripped to folders, and the resulting imgburn iso is nearly identical in size to the total filesize of the folders.
And the three original blu-ray iso's I've converted directly to unencrypted iso's are nearly identical in size as well. I've only done 3 new blu-ray's since BD+ was cracked. So, I don't have any others to compare.

But from what we're now saying/discussing, it seems that I'd have to now rip one of those 3 enrypted iso's to my harddrive, and then let imgburn create an iso from that and see if it is a different size than the original encrypted iso. Though considering that my iso's that are being created from folders are the same size as the total filesize of the files in those folders, then it would seem that they'll be exactly the same size.

I guess I'll just wait untill someone does some more in depth testing.

 

[SamuriHL]

The padding does not happen when creating from folders. It happens when you rip the ISO directly from the disc. CloneCD does it as well. The padding is NOT being done by any program...it's part of the disc itself and they theorize it has to do with the layer break. SL BD's don't seem to have this problem at all.

Also, you could just mount the encrypted image and run ImgBurn's create image from file/folders on the mounted drive. No need to rip first.

 

[Humpa]

The padding does not happen when creating from folders. It happens when you rip the ISO directly from the disc. CloneCD does it as well. The padding is NOT being done by any program...it's part of the disc itself and they theorize it has to do with the layer break. SL BD's don't seem to have this problem at all.

Yeah, I realized the mistake in my logic after I posted.
I'll rip my I am Legend original iso directly to my hdd and see what the size difference is. My pc is busy creating iso's from folders at the moment - but I'm going to give that a try when it is done.

Though I'm not sure if saving 2-5gb's is going to be worth the extra hassle or not. 5gb's costs at most $1.20, assuming you pay $240 for a 1TB drive.

 

[SamuriHL]

Yeah, I realized the mistake in my logic after I posted.
I'll rip my I am Legend original iso directly to my hdd and see what the size difference is. My pc is busy creating iso's from folders at the moment - but I'm going to give that a try when it is done.

Though I'm not sure if saving 2-5gb's is going to be worth the extra hassle or not. 5gb's costs at most $1.20, assuming you pay $240 for a 1TB drive.

Well, 5 gigs here and there adds up. I'm not sure if it's going to be worth it either, however. And it definitely doesn't work for my method of ripping with protection. So, for me I will rip the ISO fully encrypted without AnyDVD running in the background so that I can have the purest image. But for others who are space conscious, this is some good information to have.

 

[James]

It seems to me that what he's saying is the opposite, that padding is being done in read mode, but it's not ImgBurn's fault and it's the same with CloneCD, as the padding sectors are on the disc. But using the build option does get rid of the padding, but it's not a 1:1 anymore (actually this is great for most of us, we don't need a 1:1 copy, the files in a non-1:1 ISO copy will play just as well.)

Careful. Some discs use the filesystem to interleave files for whatever reasons (seamless branching? Commentaries? Different angles?), so the drive doesn't need to perform large seeks. This shouldn't matter if you play an image from harddisk, but if you intend to write an image to an optical disc, rebuilding the filesystem can render it unplayable, as the interleaving is lost.

 

[SamuriHL]

Careful. Some discs use the filesystem to interleave files for whatever reasons (seamless branching? Commentaries? Different angles?), so the drive doesn't need to perform large seeks. This shouldn't matter if you play an image from harddisk, but if you intend to write an image to an optical disc, rebuilding the filesystem can render it unplayable, as the interleaving is lost.

That's a very good point, however, this padding issue is only a problem for those that want to keep images on their hard drive. I would think if you're trying to burn you'd want a 1:1 copy without the protection. For those that ONLY care about playing the image back from the hard drive, this might give them a few gigs of space per movie.

 

[Humpa]

That's a very good point, however, this padding issue is only a problem for those that want to keep images on their hard drive. I would think if you're trying to burn you'd want a 1:1 copy without the protection. For those that ONLY care about playing the image back from the hard drive, this might give them a few gigs of space per movie.

I think many of us may be concerned with both scenarios. For instance, at the moment I'm only concerned with playing from the hdd, but in a year or three when the media prices drop, it will become cost effective to store my backups on discs.

But by then I assume that there will be tools out to properly build a burnable blu-ray iso, even if it is from one of our existing iso's that was created from folders on the harddrive.

Your suggestion of simply saving the encrypted iso is becoming more and more appealing to me in light of these various issues and other things that we just haven't thought of, considered, or planned for.

 

[GreenJelly]

Two questions!

Has anyone tried the Disk Compression that comes with windows 2003 (or other windows) on these ISO's. Is this 5 gigs highly compressable?

Second, does this method work with the latest version of PowerDVD... Its been some time since I ripped a BR disk, so I am not sure on the progress of AnyDVD dealing with the latest PowerDVD version if you use its built in ripper! But powerDVD's requirement for AACS encryption is a pain in the butt.

I also have corrupted movie images, so 6 gigs is not much until AnyDVD can deal with this. The only issue I have is that I have 1 copy of AnyHDDVD, and so I would need to run this on my HTPC. I would have problems attempting to process DVD's as new versions come out, because I would need ANOTHER copy... in addition, in the past all BR-Rips use to not play on the newest versions of PowerDVD... Whcih sucks... 6 gigs is allot, even when your running 5TB... I hope this "padding is full of nulls or something that will be highly compressible"!

I know they will get it... its time for the movie companies to drop this encryption crap. It just runes it for thoose that own the disks but are to afraid to use them because of the small hair, finger print or dust that crashes everything.

Even the DVD repairers are no good on them anymore... they are just too sensitive. It really sucks, but I want no more physical media to deal with. Id like to have all my Blue Rays hidden somewhere, since I have been robbed 2 times, and each time over $10,000 of DVD's where taken.

Can I add a suggestion to AnyHDDVD, can we have it hook up to a database to see if the title we have inserted is confirmed to work with a streight rip? If not then can it just rip a full copy un copyrighted version safely?

It was suggested, and have been for some time to get DVD Damon to add ACSS copyright on the fly... as far as the question of CPU usage? You should be running one of the "newer" radeon cards or the nvidia 9800GTS or the nvidia 9600. The best cost and video cards are the passive cooled Radeons 2600's.

 

[SamuriHL]

Your suggestion of simply saving the encrypted iso is becoming more and more appealing to me in light of these various issues and other things that we just haven't thought of, considered, or planned for.

That, my friend, is EXACTLY the concept behind my method. Having an "unmolested" ISO for lack of a better description is really IMO the way to go. That way you can mount it, let AnyDVD do its thing and have at it. Let's say in a year CloneBD is released. Mount your ISO and process it with CloneBD and burn it back to a new disc. Good to go. There are many possibilities that saving the original ISO will help with. Not that it REALLY matters cause you can always re-rip, but, I don't particularly find the ripping process very exciting or speedy.

 

[SamuriHL]

Yes, this method will work with the latest PowerDVD version as long as AnyDVD HD removes the protection. (I.E. it does NOT work for Hitman YET but will soon when they get a chance to update it. Probably this week sometime.) As for compression, I couldn't tell you. I'm sticking to my method of using CloneCD to create encrypted ISOs that I can mount and play in any version of PowerDVD. While this whole padding thing could save space, I'm more concerned with keeping the ISO as close to the original as possible.

 

[andy o]

That's a very good point, however, this padding issue is only a problem for those that want to keep images on their hard drive. I would think if you're trying to burn you'd want a 1:1 copy without the protection. For those that ONLY care about playing the image back from the hard drive, this might give them a few gigs of space per movie.

That's exactly what I meant, but James has made me rethink the way I rip my DVDs. That's probably why some of them don't work from disc very well (though just a very, very few of them). Or is this not the case with regular DVDs?

 

[GreenJelly]

That's exactly what I meant, but James has made me rethink the way I rip my DVDs. That's probably why some of them don't work from disc very well (though just a very, very few of them). Or is this not the case with regular DVDs?

It seems to me that if you look at a blue ray disk with a bad attitude it will skip and shutter. Got to gently love it, before you put it in... give it a few kisses. Yea, give us the freedom to copy our legaly owned content Sony...

 

[James]

That's exactly what I meant, but James has made me rethink the way I rip my DVDs. That's probably why some of them don't work from disc very well (though just a very, very few of them). Or is this not the case with regular DVDs?

No, this "feature" is Blu-ray only, files on DVDs or HD-DVDs aren't interleaved.
(I did tell you folks, that Blu-ray sucks, didn't I? )

 

[Charlie]

No, this "feature" is Blu-ray only, files on DVDs or HD-DVDs aren't interleaved.
(I did tell you folks, that Blu-ray sucks, didn't I? )

Would of been nice of the BD + release then the tables may be in HD then?

 

[PrincipalityFusion]

Wouldn't creating an ISO from the original disk in build mode be the same as creating an ISO from a hard drive rip?

If the ISOs from hard drive rips have been working when burned to blanks, then wouldn't the ISOs created from disk in build mode work the same way?

For the time being i'll also be playing the ISO's exclusively from hard drive, but as I reach the max for my media server, i'll need something to store the ISO's on. It would be nice if they were playable.

I guess i could just save the ISO as a file on the blank and then mount the image that would be on the blank when i wanted to play from disk. Would that work James, SamuriHL??

 

[PrincipalityFusion]

It would seem the AACS check in ImgBurn was not in there for the reason I believed. It was a misunderstanding on my part as to why it's there. I have it on good authority that the check will likely change in the next release. So, if you like using ImgBurn to do your rips there's no reason to stop using it. It's a well authored app and I still use it to burn all my media. It is by far one of the best freeware apps I've ever seen.

Can you tell why the AACS check was put there in the first place?

 

[Humpa]

Wouldn't creating an ISO from the original disk in build mode be the same as creating an ISO from a hard drive rip?

If the ISOs from hard drive rips have been working when burned to blanks, then wouldn't the ISOs created from disk in build mode work the same way?

For the time being i'll also be playing the ISO's exclusively from hard drive, but as I reach the max for my media server, i'll need something to store the ISO's on. It would be nice if they were playable.

I guess i could just save the ISO as a file on the blank and then mount the image that would be on the blank when i wanted to play from disk. Would that work James, SamuriHL??

I would have thought so - but according to James it is better to rip directly from disc to iso with AnyDVD HD running if you want to then burn it to a bd-r. This would preserve the file structure and how it is "laid out". I'm not exactly sure what he meant, but James said that with blu-ray's, sometimes(?) the files are interleaved, which is lost when you rip it to the hard drive and then create an iso from the hard drive rip. Apparently they will still play, but could cause some problems? I wanted a little more clarification on that as well.

 

[GreenJelly]

I would have thought so - but according to James it is better to rip directly from disc to iso with AnyDVD HD running if you want to then burn it to a bd-r. This would preserve the file structure and how it is "laid out". I'm not exactly sure what he meant, but James said that with blu-ray's, sometimes(?) the files are interleaved, which is lost when you rip it to the hard drive and then create an iso from the hard drive rip. Apparently they will still play, but could cause some problems? I wanted a little more clarification on that as well.

Sounds like the disks are laid out for best playback, not the best space disk savings. Which makes sense. so certain files may appear "out of place" but are there to preserve laser movement on high transfer rates. This is just an idea, but it does make sense.

 

[PrincipalityFusion]

For the Sunshine ISO that i've created, I noticed that the ISO is 36.9 gigs if you create an ISO from disk using build mode and 49.6 gigs if you create an ISO from disk using read mode. Thinking I had found the "padding" that we've been discussing, i looked at my Blu Ray drive in an explorer window and the size given for the disk is 49.6 gig so it seems that this padding that some are talking about occurs when you just copy over the files to your hard drive as this doesn't copy everything that is on the disk.

If you create an ISO using read mode however, it copies over everything, byte for byte and the resulting ISO is the same size as the disk size (at least for the Sunshine Blu Ray that i've been experimenting with).

So it seems that it's not that imageburn adds anything to the ISO file, its that depending on how you copy over the files, you might not get everything on the disk. In light of that, i think the best two alternatives we have for backing up media that can be played from hard drive and later from blank blu ray disk is to either:
1) Create ISO in read mode from disk without AnyDVD running to create a "pure" image. Although I don't think this is possible with the current version of ImageBurn with the AACS check (check me if i'm wrong).
2) Create ISO in read mode from disk with AnyDVD running to create a DRM free version.

I haven't tried number one, but I think that is a good suggestion given by SamuriHL to keep a verified image on disk (truest sense of "backup"). I know number 2 works as that is how I have been playing all of my Blu Rays since version 6.4.0 of AnyDVDHD.

 

[andy o]

The padding seems to be there only for some discs. I am Legend doesn't do it. For all intents and purposes, the resulting ISOs using both methods with ImgBurn are the same size.