BD 50GB

[njweb]

In the DVD times I had only Pioneer drives but had to switch to LG to read 4k discs. However, burning quality with non-Pioneer drives was always quite bad (Liteon, NEC etc.). The LG BD drives are OK for single layer discs (BD25) but repeatedly create eroors at the layer break of BD-50 discs. No matter if you have the best quality discs to burn. Only the Pioneers can handle the layer break w/o issues but you also need to turn down writing speed. The BD-50 and larger specs are just not taking into account that most discs have quality issues at the outer edge. For DVDs you could decide when the drives stops at the first layer and switches to the second one to avoid issues at the outer edge. The BD spec doesn't have it. The burner has to burn to the maximum capacity of the first layer and is only then allowed to switch to the second layer. This is crazy because from the very beginning of multi-layer discs most had quality issues at the outer edge of any layer. Somebody just decided this w/o looking at the historic issues.

Thanks for the insights.

My LGBU40N (albeit bought to back up my original UHD discs) does burn the dual layer 50GB BD-Rs well enough that I have a 7 for 7 success rate with Philips discs (out of a batch of 10) which I bought based on reviews (CMC MID). 5 were burned at 6X! I reduced the last two to 4X since I was done testing at that point and wanted to hopefully improve quality.
They play in my stand alone BD player.

The HP 50GB discs I bought (which have a Verbatim MID) are much worse: 3 failed burns out of 7 so far (also from a 10 pack spindle which I bought for testing).

That being said I am considering getting a Pioneer (as noted above) for burning (assuming it will improve disc longevity) and keep the Archgon / LG BU40N for 4K ripping only.

 

[njweb]

For UHD backup on BD 50 I always take the Japan Verbatim linked above from @Michael Lockwood. Burning only 2x for this purpose. I really did a lot of testing and reading in this. Together with my buddy @coopervid we got this settings as ideal.

Thanks a lot! That helps!
Okay I may do 2X then and try to be patient (was planning to burn at 4X).

Are you happy with the Pioneer 212 for burning?

Did you also try test the 'hard coat' Verbatim 50GB discs (links below for reference of which ones I mean):
10 pack https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004CJ9KYC/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
25 pack (same disc): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LPM2CU8/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s02?ie=UTF8&th=1

My discs already shipped, but I will order the Verbatim Japan discs. I can try to return the others...

I wish I had a drive which I can test quality with.
Do the Pioneer series drives (206, 209, 212 etc.) work with Nero CD/DVD Speed or Opti Drive Control?

 

[coopervid]

Thanks a lot! That helps!
Okay I may do 2X then and try to be patient (was planning to burn at 4X).

Are you happy with the Pioneer 212 for burning?

Did you also try test the 'hard coat' Verbatim 50GB discs (links below for reference of which ones I mean):
10 pack https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004CJ9KYC/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
25 pack (same disc): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LPM2CU8/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s02?ie=UTF8&th=1

My discs already shipped, but I will order the Verbatim Japan discs. I can try to return the others...

I wish I had a drive which I can test quality with.
Do the Pioneer series drives (206, 209, 212 etc.) work with Nero CD/DVD Speed or Opti Drive Control?

You don't want to return to the days 20+ years ago - don't you? Use our recommendation what really works and be done.
If you want to spend time and bad burns then start your experiments. Feel free to do so.

 

[njweb]

You don't want to return to the days 20+ years ago - don't you? Use our recommendation what really works and be done.
If you want to spend time and bad burns then start your experiments. Feel free to do so.

Thanks, yes, of course I don't.
I just did not want to discount the 'hard coat' Verbatim discs on my own if they were also good / as good (nobody confirmed if those had been tried or not). I'll get the Japan discs... No worries, the Japan ones are cheaper too!

In short, I do really appreciate the recommendations!

So moving to burners, it seems I can assume he Pioneer BDR-212 burner (since the BDR-206 and BDR-208 are no longer produced) would be a (significant???) upgrade over my LG BU40N?
Asking since the latter burns burns Dl 50GB discs that play fine in my stand alone player (no issues at all - 7 discs out of 7), but unfortunately I cannot scan them to check the actual quality (I do not have a supported LiteOn drive to scan my BD-R discs with using Opti Control or Nero CD/DVD Speed...)

 

[coopervid]

You can still check with the free VSO Inspector. Just burn a BD50 disc with your LG drive and you will see that you have errors. No matter what brand you use.
I can't make an assessment between the hard coat Verbatim discs and the Japanese discs. I only know that the Japanese discs are cheaper and they work.

 

[njweb]

You can still check with the free VSO Inspector. Just burn a BD50 disc with your LG drive and you will see that you have errors. No matter what brand you use.
I can't make an assessment between the hard coat Verbatim discs and the Japanese discs. I only know that the Japanese discs are cheaper and they work.

Great, thanks, exactly the feedback I was looking for!

Let me try VSO Inspector as well.

 

[coopervid]

BD25 with LG as a burner

 

[njweb]

Good news is I found the same Verbatim Japan 50GB discs with faster shipping from outside Japan.
However just when I was getting ready to order them, I noticed they only get a 4.1 rating (10% of reviews are 1-star) and 2 of the last 4 reviews are about bad batches / issues
Not trying to be a pessimist and appreciate all the feedback here, but as you can imagine for a $120 outlay (50 pack) with no returns, I would hate for them to be different and have lots of issues as opposed to the ones you guys burned so successfully...

Are different sellers selling different batches? This seller has 100% positive feedback, but the reviews, while all for the same media, are consolidated for other sellers as well. Hmmm....


"J. S. Sevakis
1.0 out of 5 stars Most discs are bad
Reviewed in the United States on April 22, 2020
Verified Purchase
I've been burning blu-rays professionally for almost a decade, and I have NEVER had this many bad burns. I've had one spindle with about half the discs being bad, but at this point I'm getting errors on EVERY disc, particularly around the layer change. At this point I'm throwing away the rest of the discs. Total waste of money. I've had good luck with the 4x speed Verbatims, but these 6x ones are complete trash.
One person found this helpful"

And similar bad reviews about the latest batch

gljm99
2.0 out of 5 stars Once reliable disc now hit or miss
Reviewed in the United States on November 30, 2019
Verified Purchase
I have used Verbatim Discs for years without any problems but this last set has been almost totally garbage. Disc after disc shows errors when burning. I'm not sure if Verbatim has changed where they are manufactured or if their quality control is just not doing their job. I will have to think twice about buying another spindle of these discs.

 

[njweb]

Surface scan from VSO Inspector of my Philips 50GB BD-R DL disc (burned at 4x with IMGBurn with my LG BU40N):
42.5GB of data, so they go well beyond the layer break.

No errors.

 

[njweb]

I generally burn at 2X. The Pioneer 212-EBK Produces good results. Ive had no errors so far.

Thanks, somehow missed this post earlier (busy day).

 

[njweb]

UPDATE:

BURNER
Even though I got good results with the Philips discs (7 out of 7 burns successful - burned 5@6X and 2@ 4X) and LG BU40N burner (see test results in the above screenshot), for hopefully better disc longevity, per the recommendations by kufo / Coopervid, I ordered a Pioneer BDR-212 burner (since the 206 and 208 are no longer manufactured - supported).
Hopefully I will not be disappointed and will actually see a benefit out of the new burner (since my BU40N has been burning well).

The BDR-212 arrives Wednesday along with the USB 3.0 enclosure (was going to get OWC Mercury Pro enclosure, but Pioneer burners are too long for that enclosure).


Vantec NST-536S3-BK NexStar DX USB 3.0 External Enclosure for SATA Blu-Ray/CD/DVD Drive All Black
Buy it again

Pioneer Electronics BDR-212DBK 16x Internal BD/DVD/CD Writer Supports Blu-Ray & M-Disc Format, Drive-RW/DVD-RW Only
Buy it again


50GB DISCS
Regarding the Verbatim BD-R from Japan:
Based on reviews of 2 people who tried both the 4X which Coopervid / Kufo linked to / used and the newer 6X versions of the Verbatim Japan discs Michael posted, it seems the new 6X ones have issues for a number of people, whereas the 4X version are far better for the same people...
That might explain why some reviews are bad online. So I may actually try the 4X ones...
Wish they came in smaller packs so I could test them first.

• Verbatim Blu-ray Disc 50 pcs Spindle - 50GB 4X BD-R DL - Inkjet Printable
• In Stock
• Free Shipping for Prime Members & This is a giftLearn more

Qty:Qty: 1


$119.88

• New Verbatim Blu-ray Disc 50 pcs Spindle - 50GB 6x BD-R DL Full HD - Inkjet Printable by Verbatim
• Only 1 left in stock - order soon.
• Free Shipping for Prime Members
• This is a gift This is a giftLearn more

Qty:Qty: 1
$117.00

 

[coopervid]

kufo and myself use the 4x from Japan

 

[njweb]

kufo and myself use the 4x from Japan

Cool, thanks for confirming!

Media: I will try these 4X discs on my new BDR-212 then (which is arriving tomorrow).
Since I am worried, given that some batches have been really bad for many reviewers lately.
to minimize the risk / hassle, I found and ordered a 20 pack of the 4X for the same price per disc as the 50 pack...
Hope the one I ordered is the right one in terms of quality: VBR260YP20SV1 ?

My Verbatim 10 pack of Hard Coat discs arrived today. Will try them out today.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004CJ9KYC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Enclosure: The new version of the Vantec 5.25" drive enclosure (Vantec NST-536S3-BK NexStar DX) which I ordered (for the BDR-212) has some 'so so' reviews (although overall the reviews are very positive). I ordered the Vantec because the OWC Mercury Pro is too short for the Pioneer:
Q:Latest version has a larger pc board inside the case. pioneer optical drive no longer fits (it did fit in older versions). any ideas?
A:Use double sided foam tape to affix drive to enclosure, but front of optical drive will stick out at the front. Do that, or buy the Vantec enclosure. see less
By tyrdz on July 19, 2020

If anyone knows of alternative quality enclosures that fit the long Pioneer burners, I would love to know. Thanks!

 

[coopervid]

Well-kufo didn't metion it but his Pioneer 212 did fit in the OWC Mercury.

 

[njweb]

Well-kufo didn't metion it but his Pioneer 212 did fit in the OWC Mercury.

Interesting, thanks, without extruding? Asking since I found this review for the OWC Mercury Pro and the owner specifically has a Pioneer BDR-2212 which has the same dimensions as the BDR-212 (right?) and the drive did NOT fit in the OWC.
"Sturdy Optical Drive Enclosure, Short"
By tyrdz on January 19, 2020…Had to use double sided foam tape to affix a Pioneer BDR-2212, to the enclosure.…
https://www.amazon.com/OWC-Mercury-...mercury&qid=1614725170&sr=8-6#customerReviews

That is the same foam solution others used and their Pioneers drives extended beyond the enclosure due to the length issue.
From amazon from the OWC: "The manufacturer says drives up to 6.77 inches deep."
The BDR-212 is 7.09 inches deep per specs on Pioneer's site.

Maybe there was a different (longer) version of the OWC previously? Otherwise it is puzzling.

 

[coopervid]

I have read that, too. @kufo - please comment.

 

[kufo]

Whow! Missed a lot last evening.
Went to bed early ... Ah yes.
.. The 212 fits perfectly in it's lenght to this enclosure. Only the srew holes were a bit to small. I had to enlarge them a bit. No problem at all.
I will read this all in the afternoon to be up to date.

 

[kufo]

@njweb I took some pictures to show you how good the drive suits to the OWC Mercury:

There´s enough space in the back of this enclosure. Perhaps @Swiso can leave a comment here too. I took the pictuers for him, because he bought the same enclosure on my recommendation.
I´m pretty sure you´ll be happyy with this too.

 

[njweb]

Whow! Missed a lot last evening.
Went to bed early ... Ah yes.
.. The 212 fits perfectly in it's lenght to this enclosure. Only the srew holes were a bit to small. I had to enlarge them a bit. No problem at all.
I will read this all in the afternoon to be up to date.

Thanks a lot kufo! You read my mind, I was going to ask if you would not mind sharing photos since so many reviews say they do not fit, including the 2212 (212 cousin with software).


Unfortunately the photos are not working... I see this:

 

[kufo]

In the first picture you can see the the front panel of the drive standing in front of the enclosure. If you need some more detailed pictiures I can take them for you. I'll be back at home in a few hours.