AI Scanner (default) just not good enough...

[az_raiden]

:bang: After checking several DVDs, I have come to the conclussion that the "default" setting for the AI Scanner in AnyDVD is not good enough. It seems that there are many DVDs that have some type of protection that isn't detected unless the AI Scanner is set to "Always".

For an example, let's use "Atonement".

AnyDVD AI Scanner set to "default" detects:

RCE protection not found.
Structural copy protection not found.
Bad sector protection not found.
Emulating RPC-2 drive with region 1!

AnyDVD AI Scanner set to "always" detects:

RCE protection not found.
AI scan forced, heuristic scan detected no protection!
Found & removed structural copy protection!
Found & removed invalid cell pieces!
Found & removed invalid VOBUs!
Bad sector protection not found.
Emulating RPC-2 drive with region 1!

To double check these findings, I used DVDFab v5.0.1.2 beta:

UOPs (User Operation Prohobitions) protection is removed!
Invalid CELLs protection is removed!
Invalid VOBUs protection is removed!
Bad sector protection is not found!
Structure protection (ARccOS, RipGuard, etc.) is not found.

First of all, I realize that when the AI scan is forced, you will always get the message: "Found & removed structural copy protection!" even when there isn't any. I just ignore this message when I force the scan. What the AnyDVD forced scan and DVDFab found in common were:

Found & removed invalid cell pieces! / Invalid CELLs protection is removed!
Found & removed invalid VOBUs! / Invalid VOBUs protection is removed!

One thing that DVDFab tends to find a lot, that AnyDVD doesn't, is:
UOPs (User Operation Prohobitions) protection is removed!

PgcEdit tends to agree with DVDFab on these, and then some.

I have discovered that if I use both settings for AnyDVD, on many DVDs, the forced scan finds things that in my opinion should be found by the default setting.

Suggestion:

Why can't the "always" be the default setting; but if it doesn't detect any structural protection then it shouldn't generate the "Found & removed structural copy protection!"

Final thought. I can only guess that the "default" setting lists the following:

RCE protection not found.
Structural copy protection not found.
Bad sector protection not found.

and doesn't worry about anything else because since it didn't find these things, it can safely produce a copy of the DVD. Also, is the "default" setting finding more things, but doesn't list them. That's one thing that I like about the information displayed by DVDFab, and that is it lists precise detail of what is found.

Final Suggestion:

I created a thread last year where I said that I believed the scanners needed to scan twice. I discovered that I could rip a movie, burn it, and the burned copy would still have some kind of protection or UOPs. I would then have to re-rip the rip to get rid of what was left. I think that there should be 3 different scans that take place.

First Scan = Check for Structure protection (ARccOS, RipGuard, etc.).

Second scan = Normal scan that scans for everything else. Some initial temporary IFOs are generated.

Third scan = Rescan the "initial temporary IFOs" created for more problems or problems that weren't recognized the first time. Generate the final IFOs.

I think that this would produce a cleaner copy. It would prevent me from having to use 3 different programs to scan with, because sometimes I use PgcEdit to scan with and boy does it find stuff.

:clap: I applaud the Slysoft team for all of the hard work that they have done over the years, especially with the Blu-Ray discs. I think that the next great killer app will be for someone to produce a Blu-Ray to DVD converter that preserves menus. I currently own three licenses of every app Slysoft produces (except for Jackal ent), and would gladly buy three more for that app.

az_raiden

To further illustrate what I am saying, I will list some more examples (updating as time permits):

==========================================================================================
American Gangster
==========================================================================================

"default"
RCE protection not found.
Structural copy protection not found.
Bad sector protection not found.

"forced"
RCE protection not found.
AI scan forced, heuristic scan detected no protection!
Found & removed structural copy protection!
Found & removed bogus title set(s)!
Found & removed 1 potential bad sector protections!

DVDFab:
UOPs (User Operation Prohobitions) protection is removed!
Fake vts 2 is removed!
1 fake vts protections are removed!
Potential bad sector (vts:1 title begin:1734254 end:1740013) is removed!
1 potential bad sector protections are removed!
Structure protection (ARccOS, RipGuard, etc.) is removed!

Notice here that DVDFab actually lists some type of Structure Protection while the AnyDVD "default" does not
(which means it didn't detect anything)

==========================================================================================
The Golden Compass
==========================================================================================

"default"
RCE protection not found.
Found & removed structural copy protection!
Found & removed invalid cell pieces!
Found & removed bogus title set(s)!
UDF filesystem patched!
Found & removed 8 potential bad sector protections!

"forced"
RCE protection not found.
Found & removed structural copy protection!
Found & removed invalid cell pieces!
Found & removed bogus title set(s)!
UDF filesystem patched!
Found & removed 8 potential bad sector protections!

DVDFab:
UOPs (User Operation Prohobitions) protection is removed!
Invalid CELLs protection is removed!
6 fake vts protections are removed!
Potential bad sector (vts:1 title begin-0 end-8) is removed!
Potential bad sector (vts:1 title begin:16 end:32737) is removed!
Potential bad sector (vts:1 title begin:3287481 end:3320279) is removed!
3 potential bad sector protections are removed!
Structure protection (ARccOS, RipGuard, etc.) is removed!
103 unplayable cells are removed!

The invalid cell pieces and bogus title messages are listed with "default" since the structural protection was found. Once again DVDFab lists "UOPs" while AnyDVD does not. The next big question is whether or not AnyDVD is actually finding more "bad sector" protections that DVDFab or simply generating more false positives?

==========================================================================================
TERMINATOR 2 - JUDGEMENT DAY [Artisan Extreme DVD Edition]
==========================================================================================
"default"
Found & removed RCE protection!
Structural copy protection not found.
Bad sector protection not found.

"forced"

Found & removed RCE protection!
AI scan forced, heuristic scan detected no protection!
Found & removed structural copy protection!
Found & removed invalid cell pieces!
Found & removed bogus title set(s)!
Found & removed 1 potential bad sector protections!

DVDFab unfortunately couldn't handle this DVD, after an hour it was still scanning.

 

[Webslinger]

: It seems that there are many DVDs that have some type of protection that isn't detected unless the AI Scanner is set to "Always".

You are confusing "reported" with "detected". James, if he is around, may correct me if I'm wrong, but I am of the opinion Anydvd doesn't report everything that it actually detects/does.

One thing that DVDFab tends to find a lot, that AnyDVD doesn't, is:
UOPs (User Operation Prohobitions) protection is removed!

I suspect you are confusing "find" with "reports".

Why can't the "always" be the default setting; but if it doesn't detect any structural protection then it shouldn't generate the "Found & removed structural copy protection!"

What difference would that make other than what's being reported to you? There are, I believe, limitations with respect to what's being reported regardless of whether the A.I. scanner is set to "always enabled".

Also, is the "default" setting finding more things, but doesn't list them.

Yes, I am of the opinion Anydvd at default settings is finding a lot of stuff that it doesn't report. But I'm sure if I'm wrong James or peer will correct me.

I discovered that I could rip a movie, burn it, and the burned copy would still have some kind of protection or UOPs.

If you rip with Anydvd ripper, there's no way any structural protection is left. The claim with respect to UOPs has been made before, but James is unable to reproduce that issue: http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=14295

As for the rest of what you've written, James is probably best able to address that.

 

[Peer]

:bang: After checking several DVDs, I have come to the conclussion that the "default" setting for the AI Scanner in AnyDVD is not good enough. It seems that there are many DVDs that have some type of protection that isn't detected unless the AI Scanner is set to "Always".

For an example, let's use "Atonement".

AnyDVD AI Scanner set to "default" detects:

RCE protection not found.
Structural copy protection not found.
Bad sector protection not found.
Emulating RPC-2 drive with region 1!

AnyDVD AI Scanner set to "always" detects:

RCE protection not found.
AI scan forced, heuristic scan detected no protection!
Found & removed structural copy protection!
Found & removed invalid cell pieces!
Found & removed invalid VOBUs!
Bad sector protection not found.
Emulating RPC-2 drive with region 1!

The reason for this is simple: pretty much every commercial disc has some sectors/cells that are useless and never will get a chance to get played.
Copy protections also add cells that never get played.
The AI scanner removes both types and can't tell the difference. That's why you (almost) always will see that line.

With the default setting, the heuristic scan will determine whether the findings of an AI scan will probably just be these harmless "droppings" from the mastering software that didn't clean up.

The idea behind this is: don't touch the disc, if you don't have to.

One thing that DVDFab tends to find a lot, that AnyDVD doesn't, is:
UOPs (User Operation Prohobitions) protection is removed!

Well, that's because AnyDVD doesn't make such a fuss about removing UOPs, yelling "hey, looky me! I big UOP remover! I remove UOP!" - they are no copy protection, AnyDVD removes them while walking by - silently.
EVERY commercial disc has them and AnyDVD removes ALL of them (at least those that have an effect).

I created a thread last year where I said that I believed the scanners needed to scan twice. I discovered that I could rip a movie, burn it, and the burned copy would still have some kind of protection or UOPs. I would then have to re-rip the rip to get rid of what was left. I think that there should be 3 different scans that take place.
[...]
I think that this would produce a cleaner copy.

Why that?
I'm sure that most people here will agree with me, that the "clean" copy is the one that works. Period.
There is no point in wasting the user's time with cleaning up cleaner than clean just to create a completely antiseptic copy that will, after getting cleaned yet another time - by absolutely no means - be distinguishable from the "basic" type when watching it.

And with "wasting time": don't forget that many users use AnyDVD to be able to throw their original DVD at their HTPC and be able to watch it without the worries about region codes and UOPs and annoying trailers, logos or rootkits infesting their PC.
Not everyone is making copies. These people don't want to wait an extra 3 minutes before they can start viewing just for the comforting feeling that their DVD viewing experience will now be the cleanest on the planet (sorry, gotta laugh here).

Anyway - I hope you don't feel offended by this, but I think that AnyDVD is doing just fine in respect to these things.

 

[Pelvis Popcan]

When's the update coming out that fixes the "clone" problems?