A Layman's Guide to Shrinking HDDVD Size on Hard Drive

Discussion in 'High Definition Software' started by rlung, Dec 24, 2007.

  1. rlung

    rlung Well-Known Member

    A Layman's Guide to Shrinking HDDVD Size on Hard Drive

    12/24/07




    Background:

    With titles coming in at a hefty size, I wanted a more efficient way to store and watch movies on a HTPC. With a HDDVD / BD collection currently spanning over 3 rigs, I'm finding myself beginning to delete older backups to store more current ones, quite contrary to a true HTPC mentality. I also find storing the entire folder structure on a hard drive terribly inefficient, an HTPC in my humble opinion should store the movie (1 each vid, audio, sub stream) only, if I want to watch director commentaries or deleted scenes I'll get up and put the disc in...or possible find someone to do it.

    Also, call me crazy but I absolutely need to have subtitles in motion pictures, I've been spoiled by it and never looked back.

    Link to Bluray version:

    http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?p=78049#post78049

    My goals:

    1. subtitles
    2. no transcoding
    3. simple (for me, that means no graphs), fast (relatively) and easily replicated title to title with consistent results



    Programs I Used:

    AnyDVDHD (courtesy of Slysoft) - without this amazing program none of what follows is possible, well, without violating goal # 3.

    EVOdemux 0.627b7 (courtesy of pelican9 @ doom9) - demuxes .evo file to elementary stream / rebuilds .evo

    SUPrip 0.91 (courtesy of taktaal @ doom9) - converts .sup to .srt w/ocr

    Subtitle Workshop (courtesy of urusoft) - corrects duration, syntax errors in .srt

    Nero 8 v8.2.8.0 Showtime w/ HD-DVD / Bluray plugin - playback of .evo with .srt



    Observations:

    1. I've purposely kept subtitles in rebuilt evo even though we're gonna use externals, eventually I'd like for a media player to read these natively.

    2. Enabling external subtitles also disables hardware acceleration, although I’m not entire confident Showtime correctly uses it like PDVD.

    3. My original guide centered around modifying the .xpl file with playback through PDVD, a method that is considerably easier. I noticed, however, moderate frame stuttering about a min after a chapter skip in certain titles, contrary to goal #3.

    4. If we’re not interested in subtitles, we can skip steps 3 – 5.

    5. I didn’t use a subtitle repository like www.opensubtitles.org which would again eliminate steps 3 – 5 because (1) the HD/BD versions are scarce at the moment and (2) I wanted to develop a method that doesn’t rely on another party.

    6. Total time from start to finish is around ~35min per title (10 step two, 5 step three, 5-20 step four, 5-20 step five) . Steps 4 and 5 are the most time consuming although once we learn the ropes it drops considerably.


    Step 0

    Backup our HD-DVD to hard drive with AnyDVDHD


    Step 1

    - Our goal is to find & identify the appropriate 2 .evo files -

    Search within c:\targetmovie\HVDVD_TS\xxxxx.evo (replace "c:\targetmovie" with what’s appropriate) and search for the largest 2 files, usually labeled "feature_1" & "feature_2" or "PEVOB_1" & "PEVOB_2", that’s our movie split in 2 separate parts. If it isn't labeled as such but we are sure its the movie, rename both to one of the above.


    Step 2

    - Our goal is to rebuild .evo -

    Open EVOdemux

    Ok, lets browse for our target movie, in this case The Matrix Reloaded

    Options tab

    [​IMG]

    Video/Audio tab

    [​IMG]

    Subpicture tab

    [​IMG]

    For the Matrix Reloaded we’re choosing

    Main movie VC-1 video stream
    English DD+ audio stream (alternative would be MLP, i.e. DD TrueHD)
    English subtitle

    All to be remuxed into “m:\1 streaming HDDVD folder”

    REBUILD


    Step 3

    - Our goal is to extract subtitle only stream for further processing -

    Still using EVOdemux lets uncheck both VC-1 stream & DD+ stream, leaving checked subpicture.00.

    DEMUX



    Step 4

    - Our goal is to translate the .sup file into a more editing friendly .srt one -

    Open Suprip

    Open .sup created in step 3

    [​IMG]
    OCR

    Take notice of the 3 options, adjusting them will greatly speed up this process, use trial & error for these values as they aren’t set in stone. Suprip will normally have bitmap characters that it can’t identify, manually enter them until we get to the end.

    (continued)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2008
  2. rlung

    rlung Well-Known Member

    (continued)

    [​IMG]

    Save as .srt file

    [​IMG]



    Step 5

    - Our goal is to edit .srt file to correct any grammatical, time-duration, or OCR errors -

    Open subtitle workshop

    Open .srt files created in step 4

    [​IMG]

    Use <control I> to check for errors, pay special attention to duration errors, where subtitle show & hide times are identical
    Use <F7> to grammar check

    Save file


    Step 6

    Enable external subtitles in Showtime

    [​IMG]

    We’re done!

    Just make sure both .evo & .srt files are located in same folder



    Results:

    column A = full movie backed up to hard drive (GB)
    column B = this guide

    A / B

    Apollo 13.....(26.4 / 18.0)
    End of Days.....(27.7 / 18.3)
    Lethal Weapon.....(19.7 / 18.8 )
    Lethal Weapon 2.....(20.1 / 18.9)
    Payback.....(19.3 / 15.4)
    Pulse.....(20.7 / 12.6)
    Serenity.....(19.6 / 14.9)
    Shrek 3.....(25.4 / 14.2)
    The Hulk.....(27.6 / 20.6)
    The Matrix Reloaded.....(24.8 / 14.3)
    The Matrix Revolution.....(21.2 / 13.5)
    The Thing.....(32.5 / 12.7)

    02/24/08 update:

    American Gangster.....<25.4 / 21.8>
    Bourne Ultimatum.....<25.1 / 15.3>
    Casino.....<27.8 / 22.6>
    Goodfellas.....<23.6 / 17.4>
    Traffic.....<27.7 / 23.7>


    Now that’s a more palatable pill to swallow.

    Alas, nothing written here is new info, I just humbly compiled a method that works for me and hopefully can help others.

    Thank you for reading.

    Ryan
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  3. Anthony1uk

    Anthony1uk Well-Known Member

    Thanks for this very helpful guide rlung.

    My only question about this is, why can't Slysoft make an easy to use All in One app to do all of this to compliment AnyHDDVD.

    Maybe make it so you don't need to rip the entire disk to the hard drive first only remove the movie one language track and one subtitle track with no transcoding simply unneeded extra's/languages being removed.
     
  4. GigaBoy

    GigaBoy New Member

    I have to agree...While this guide make my tasks very efficient (comparatively), I would like to see slysoft develop an application to perform these features; In fact, they don't even have to come up with a new name. They already have the mux of AnyDVD and CloneDVD...they need to develop CloneDVDHD and bundle it with AnyDVDHD.

    We should remember to give credit where credit is due, however. SlySoft has been somewhat of a "Pioneer" (for lack of a better word) as far as the "on-the-fly" decryption of DVD's, HD-DVD's and BD's, and I know it's hard enough for them to keep up with the everchanging difficulties of the restrictions of new HD titles. Seems like each new/update version is to unlock abilities for a single title.

    Give it time, and I'm sure we will see a solution that we'll all be satisfied with (for a while, anyway...LOL)

    -Geoffrey
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2007
  5. sfc

    sfc New Member

    Nicely done.
     
  6. captain_video

    captain_video Well-Known Member

    Do you need anything other than the rebuilt EVO file for playback? I assume you're just selecting the single file for playback and not playing back from a folder unless you have to include the original XPL file along with it. I generally don't need subtitles, except with just a few movies, so it appears that all I need to do is remux the two feature.EVO files into a single large file and discard everything else. I've got Nero Showtime with the HD-DVD and BD plug-in but playback pretty much sucks using it. Will this also work with PDVD?
     
  7. rlung

    rlung Well-Known Member

    That would be correct no folder structure or xpl required / wanted, all we will have is a single xxxxx.evo.

    Showtime / MPC is my choice for playing back raw evo's, PDVD most definitely is not.

    Good Luck

    Ryan
     
  8. captain_video

    captain_video Well-Known Member

    I tried the process on "The Heartbreak Kid" and remuxed to two feature EVO files to one large file. Playback using Nero Showtime (Nero version 7) with the HD plug-in was downright awful. The audio was several seconds out of sync and it stuttered all over the place. I thought I read a comment somewhere about remuxing the EVO files twice to fix the sync issues (perhaps that was in the Blu-Ray thread?).

    Is it necessary to mux it again? Is there a difference between Nero Showtime 7 and 8 as far as HD playback? I couldn't even get the rebuilt file to play back in PDVD. I'd love to get this working as I just maxed out all three 750GB drives in my HTPC with HD-DVD and BD rips. I'm running out of places to install more drives unless I go with an external RAID array or a bunch of USB drives.
     
  9. James

    James Redfox Development Team Staff Member

    You don't need to rip first (which is the wonderful thing about AnyDVD nobody seems to realize).
     
  10. rlung

    rlung Well-Known Member

    Hey Cap

    Double remuxing is normally reserved for bluray + seamless branching discs, I haven't encounted a xxxxx.evo that required it.

    I'm not entirely convinced that nero 7 showtime w/bluray plugin is ready for prime time, nero 8.2.8 is. I'm gonna believe our issue lies here although we can still try some things.

    During remuxing, if not already lets try to uncheck both "adjust PTS of the evo to follow" & "rebuild ADV_PCKS," exactly like the pic in guide. I know thats counter-intuitive but it helped me on certain discs. We'll know if we need those checked if showtime incorrectly interprets movie duration during playback.

    If thats unsuccessful lets try rebuilding .evo with another language selected.

    Eac3to, courtesy of madshi @ doom9, is becoming a nice alternative to EVOdemux, recently added the ability to rebuild .evo's, also has the option of a nice GUI, courtesy of The_Keymaker @ doom9.

    http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=125966

    Good Luck

    Ryan
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2008
  11. elmatson

    elmatson Active Member

    no go

    I did all of the above . Showtime says it does not support that file type...
     
  12. rlung

    rlung Well-Known Member

    If we're experiencing the same problems as Cap, even with nero 8.2.8 & BD/HD plugin, I'd suggest verifying whether its an evo rebuilding or playback issue.

    Sarah99 had an awesome guide to getting HD/BD playback through MPC with the proper filters & merits.

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=892527

    Good Luck

    Ryan
     
  13. captain_video

    captain_video Well-Known Member

    I got a copy of Nero 8.2.8.0 and installed it and now the .EVO file plays fine with no stuttering or sync problems. If it works as well with the Blu-Ray disc rips then I'll be busy all weekend reducing the size of all my HD rips.:D
     
  14. rlung

    rlung Well-Known Member

    Thats fantastic news.
     
  15. Anthony1uk

    Anthony1uk Well-Known Member

    Thanks James, but I was meaning with regards to backing up of HD-DVD movies.

    Similar to how backing up DVD's allows me to, with the help of CloneDVD or DVDShrink, do on the fly rips of the movie from an original disk without ever needing to rip the entire disk, i.e movie, menu's, extra's and all to the hard drive first.

    Thus removing the need to then do another full encoding process to extract the main movie from this entire disk backup on the hard drive.

    It is just with regards to Hidef and with the disks currently going up to 50GB each. The whole two stage ripping process will use a lot of hard drive space. Therefore an on the fly HD-DVD/Blu-Ray movie ripper would be an excellent benefit for backup purposes.

    So can I ask are Slysoft currently working on developing an On the Fly HD-DVD/Blu-Ray ripper that can do what CloneDVD can do with ripping SD-DVD movies?.

    Thanks
    Anthony
     
  16. drsmithdtv

    drsmithdtv Member

    Having seen this guide I tried to see if I could play shrunken EVO's with PowerDVD via modified XPL.

    Initial playback looked good and was without the stutters that I get when trying to play the shrunken EVO directly with PowerDVD. Unfortunately playback problems did emerge with further testing.

    I found that when playing back the shrunken EVO's via XPL, the playback time was reduced on PowerDVD. For example when I demuxed and rebuild the first EVO from Transformers, rebuilding the H.264 video track only resulted in an EVO that had a playback length of 1h:00m:24s on PowerDVD. Rebuilt with two tracks (video and 6ch audio) the playback length was about 1h:04m. Rebuilt with all tracks the playback time was 1h:11m:49s which is the same as the original EVO.

    I can only guess as to a cause. Perhaps in the corresponding MAP file there is a reference that relates the playback time of the EVO to it's size.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2008
  17. drsmithdtv

    drsmithdtv Member

    With playback of shrunken EVO's via an english trial version of TotalMedia Theatre, I have have not experienced the above problem.

    I therefore conclude that in relation to the above, PowerDVD is at fault.
     
  18. heydude1

    heydude1 Member

    I found this yesterday at Doom 9 after a short google search.
    http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=129001

    I hadn't been looking for any help since before Christmas so was excited to see this. Good to see it is stickied here.

    Rebuilt two HD DVD's and a Blu ray. Single files with DD and primary subtitles. They play great with Nero 8 - Showtime with the plugin. So the HD DVD rips are both about 17 gig and the Blu ray is 26.3 gig. Won't take long to fill up a couple of large HD's.
     
  19. <><

    <>< Member

    does this method make a smaller file as compared to the editing of the .xpl method? I currently edit the xpl and delete unneeded evos and this works perfectly, without any stuttering etc on my htpcs.

    thanks
     
  20. eclipse98

    eclipse98 Member

    Yes, when you modify .xpl and remove junk .evos you still have all unwanted audio streams in your .evos. This method removes these audio streams with rather significant storage savings (average 20-30%).

    Now, the only problem I have have with this method is playing new .EVO file -- when I try playing it directly with PowerDVD it is shuttering (same happens when I play original file as well) and I have not been able to figure out how to play it no matter what I tried -- it appears PowerDVD does need XPL and MAP files for proper HD DVD playback and with this method no matching MAPs are created -- I tried to re-use original MAPs but still can't make it work properly.

    If anybody was able to play EVO files created by this method in PowerDVD would you share your success story ?

    Thanks, Davie.