4K ULTRA HD - BD-25 - BD-50

Discussion in 'CloneBD' started by czappiotr, May 22, 2018.

  1. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member


    Here's a link to the desktop ... https://support.hp.com/ca-en/document/c05792870

    And here's my motherboard....

    https://support.hp.com/ca-en/document/c05792694


    It looks like it has an available PCI Express X16 slot. So hopefully, that's what I would need.


    I'm hoping to spend around $200 USD or so. $300 at the most.

    Especially since, if I understand correctly, the only benefit I will get from this is CloneBD processing. Actual display video will still be using the internal GPU...


    Desktop specs say there's a 300 W power supply in there.

    And I haven't added anything since I bought it,except the external UHD-friendly Blu Ray drive and an external 500G SSD, both USB.

    Enough power?


    T
     
  2. Ch3vr0n

    Ch3vr0n Translator NL & Mod

    That long one is indeed what you need.

    HERE's a list from PC-Partpicker with possible GTX 1050's and 1060's that match your budget. $200 restricts you to the lowest class of GTX's (1050) Going up to 300 enables the 1050 Ti or 1060's

    Going by PSU calculator and the listed hardware on that PC link, 300W is sufficient for the default specs (Load wattage 223, recommended PSU 273W)

    If you add even the lowest class 1050 (Ti), the recommended PSU power is around 350W (exceeding your current one), if you up to the 1060 it goes up to 396W, far exceeding your current PSU. Thus under full encoding load, there's a very good chance that limited PSU will not be able to supply sufficient power to the entire system (and thus risk a power shutdown, or at worst, causing a power draw overload in the PSU and causing a "dead" PSU).

    If you want to add a dedicated card, if you want to be safe, you'll need to upgrade that power supply too, to at least 400-450+ W.

    Unfortunately the thing with those pre-built systems is that the chassis and internal components are "JUST ENOUGH" for whats in there. Wanna upgrade, or add stuff? You're pretty much screwed.

    It wouldn't surprise me if the dimensions of that PSU are "non-standard", and it won't be easy to upgrade it. You'll have to measure it up and compare it against dimensions of the potential upgrade. Then there's also the fact that the PCI-E socket is very close to the ram slots, I don't know how much free space there is between the back of the PC and the front (on the inside) but you'l also have to measure that up to see if there's enough space to house the potential GPU.

    While theoretically you could place the GPU in the pci-e x1 slot, it's not recommended. The socket isn't equipped to handle a GPU power wise.

    All those reasons are the reason why i personally, NEVER, buy a pre-built system. I always pick the parts myself, and build it myself (though while that 2nd part probably isn't for you, the first part maybe is for a future PC. I'd be happy to "assemble" one on individual parts bases on a budget. You could then buy the parts and let for example a shop assemble it or do both).

    So, while it IS possible to add that dedicated GPU, it's not gonna be a "buy and hook it up" type of case.[/URL]
     
    kufo likes this.
  3. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member


    Wow, ok.

    So though it looks like I can get a 1060 for around $300 you're saying the existing 300W power supply may not be sufficient. Meaning I would have to upgrade that as well.

    Not so sure I have the skills to upgrade a power supply and that is (obviously) critical to the whole PC --- so this may be a deal breaker.


    While I definitely do not have the where-with-all to build my own computer, I had considered in the past picking parts on the HP website and having them build me a custom machine. But the price was always prohibitive. So I've always had pre-built machines.


    I'll look further into upgrading the power supply but if that seems too daunting, may have to hold off on processing UHD's in CloneBD right now.


    This is a wealth of valuable information and links and well presented for a hardware newbie like myself. Thank you Ch3vron.


    T
     
  4. aaronwt

    aaronwt Well-Known Member

    Just don't do any processing at all. That's what I do. I use Clone BD to rip my UHD BD to MKVs. And they are all lossless copies. It typically takes only 60 to 90 minutes to create the MKV. And I keep all english audio and CC tracks. And then I play them back in UHD/HDR10 from my Nvidia Shield using Plex or Kodi.
     
  5. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member

    Yeah but if you remember, the original goal was to compress a 55G UHD so I could back it up (full copy) onto a 50G blank disc.

    This necessarily requires CloneBD processing to kick in.


    @Ch3vr0n Amazon has some interesting deals coming up for laptops with GTX 1060 cards. I'm considering buying one to process UHDs in CloneBD -- among other things.


    T
     
  6. Ch3vr0n

    Ch3vr0n Translator NL & Mod

    That may be the case but they'll never be really up to par with a dedicated desktop GPU. In laptops they're most likely smaller in design but due to size restrictions of the laptop they'll never have the same cooling performance as a desktop GPU can have. Combine that with the fact that x265 (used in UHD) is even more intensive than x264. So the GPU will get maxed out more easily and heat up faster. Which in turn means faster probably heat-throttling.
     
  7. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member

    Oh, I see.

    Well just fyi one of the ones I was looking at is this one, which reviewers say runs pretty cool ...


    https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Predato...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1531439021&sr=1-1


    What do you think?

    T
     
  8. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member

    @Ch3vron you have any thoughts on whether that laptop would be good for quick processing of UHDs in CloneBD?

    And do you think it would have the heat-throttling issue you mention?


    T
     
  9. Ch3vr0n

    Ch3vr0n Translator NL & Mod

    Any laptop will never be as good as a desktop for the reasons I mentioned above

    Sent from my Nexus 6P with Tapatalk
     
  10. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member

    Ok.

    I understand not as good as a desktop but was wondering if any good at all for efficient CloneBD processing. Or at least whether better than the desktop with Intel 630 that I'm using now.

    It's ok, it's unlikely that I will be able to purchase that now anyway.


    Thanks,

    T
     
  11. SLKabaker

    SLKabaker Well-Known Member

    That is not entirely true. Asus, MSI, Alienware and other Gaming Laptop Manufacturers have systems with high end, high quality cooling and nVidia (starting with Pascal based GPUs - 1050 to 1080) makes their mobile/laptop GPUs virtually identical to their desktop counterparts. In Fact, the mobile version of the GTX 1070 has more CUDA cores and Compute Units than the desktop version. As well as, Asus has a laptop model that uses water cooling when plugged in to its included dock and powerful air cooling when on battery. I use a MSI Laptop with a GTX 1070 and Intel Core i7-7820HK; which I can overclock both the GPU (nVidia's & Intels) and CPU (and RAM, if I wanted; I stick with XMP Profiles for that). Thermal throttling has never been an issue. Sometimes, Power can be an issue after several hours of the nVidia GPU at full/max load; Gaming Laptops will draw from their battery, in addition to the A/C Power.

    Yes, a laptop with an AMD or nVidia Discrete GPU will outperform a desktop using Intel's iGPU HD 630.

    However, if power is a concern (in the desktop); I would suggest taking a look at AMD's RX560 through RX580 Radeon GPUs. They are not as good as nVidia; but, superior to Intel and use less power and generally cost less than most nVidia cards.

    AMD RX580 (on sale for $259.99 when I posted this); AMD RX570 (on sale for $239.00 when I posted this); AMD RX560 (on sale for $149.99 when I posted this).
     
    eviltester likes this.
  12. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member


    Hi SLKabaker.

    Ok, good to know that a good gaming laptop can give me better CloneBD performance than my desktop is currently affording. The goal would be to get CloneBD processing of UHDs down to 2 hours or under. My current 17 hour performance time is just not working.

    How do the specs of the Acer Predator look to you (link in #27)? 'Cause if it can do the job there's still a (small) chance I may jump on Amazon's current sale.


    But it looks like you are also saying I may be able to add an AMD or NVidia GPU to my current desktop and use it with it's 300W power supply.

    Even better!!!

    I'll definitely look into this. Installing a GPU is the solution I prefer but I"m not skilled or confident enough to mess with my desktops power supply...

    The AMD RX580 looks good and maybe I can get it for even less on Prime Day.

    Is it the (rough) equivalent of a GTX 1080?



    T
     
  13. amazing

    amazing Well-Known Member

    I have alien version 10 with i7
     
  14. SLKabaker

    SLKabaker Well-Known Member

    The AMD RX580 is nowhere near the nVidia GTX 1080. At best, it will perform somewhere between a GTX 1050Ti and GTX 1060 (6GB Version). With the nVidia GTX 1060 cards, you have to be careful with the 3GB versions. Some of those cards are reduced by more than just halving the memory; nVidia also used a variant GPU as well, having less CUDA Cores, Lower Clock Speed, Lower Memory Speed and/or Smaller Memory Bus Width (it is not clearly marked on the individual card models; Linus Tech Tips discussed this in one of their videos). The RX500 series is based on AMD's Polaris GPU Design which has always been a Low to Mid Range GPU. AMD's VEGA GPU Architecture is what competes with the GTX 1070 to 1080Ti; however, those cards are $500 and up.

    Another thing to consider is timing. Both AMD and nVidia are going to be releasing their new GPUs in the next month or two (what industry experts are estimating based on information that has leaked out from partner OEMs). Second Generation VEGA for AMD and a new architecture from nVidia (Pascal has been out since 2016). So, waiting could be smart. You may be able to snag a GTX 1070, 1070Ti, 1080, 1080Ti or Titan Xp for significantly less; especially since GPU pricing has just started to fall after reaching extreme highs over the last 18 months (roughly). Honestly, if you are going with nVidia, I would try not to go lower than the GTX 1070 at this point in time. It is still in the bottom half of current gen GPUs (from nVidia) and with a new generation coming soon; I look at these purchase as investments and I want the best ROI (return on Investment) through being able to achieve what I need today and through the foreseeable future. Although, you still have to deal with Power Limitations in your current Desktop. Also, in the future, Please stay away from HP. They will put "White Lists" in their BIOS; which can prevent perfectly compatible Hardware from working. Usually it will prevent the computer from booting; with an error message on screen about "incompatible" hardware. Which forces you to buy specific hardware directly from HP. I have dealt with this personally on systems in the past. Going with "White Box" computers is the best way going forward; a "White Box" is a generic term for a non-Brand (not HP, DELL, Lenovo, etc.), completely custom built, desktop. The other issue, is OEMs like HP will modify the BIOS hiding options/features; preventing you from configuring the system the way you want it.

    As far as, the Acer you are linking to, it looks average. The Core i7-7700HQ is more than 18 months old and 1.5 Generations old. You want something with at least an i7-8XXX CPU or better. On top of that, there are two "versions" of 8th Gen Core Processors (Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake). You want to make sure it is a Coffee Lake CPU; you can figure it out easily by knowing the CPU Core count. Kaby Lake Core i7 CPUs have 4 Cores/8 Threads versus Coffee Lake CPUs having 6 Cores/12 Threads. When it comes to dealing with media (especially UHD media), it is important to have as many CPU cores as possible. Plus, there shouldn't be a dramatic price difference. Plus, in the very near future; there are reports of Intel putting out 8 Core/16 Thread CPUs. You don't want your "Brand New" computer to be that outdated when you are purchasing it. AMD, with their Zen Architecture, is putting out high core/high thread count CPUs; which is why Intel fast tracked these new CPUs. I bought my MSI Laptop in January 2017 when Kaby Lake was brand spanking new and because AMD launched their Ryzen line of Zen based CPUs, Intel released a revised 8th Gen Kaby Lake CPU by mid year and started pumping out Coffee Lake Soon after (at least a year or two ahead of the original road map). This is a crazy time in CPU history and you need to make sure you a maximizing your investment (unless you can afford to buy a new PC every year). Also, AMD's Ryzen CPUs tend to benchmark higher in Multicore processing; while Intel tends to be slightly better in Single Core processing. Video Playing, Editing or Transcoding is a Multicore/Multi-thread process. With AMD CPUs costing less than equivalent Intel CPUs, it may be smart to look at options that use AMD CPUs and see which options are truly better. I will admit,though, that the Desktop Market gets the newer versions before the Mobile/Laptop Market does.

    I hope this helps.
     
  15. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member

    @SLKabaker That is a lot to digest!

    I certainly appreciate all the information. Give me a while to take it all in. There's a lot in here I need to look up.

    I know you're right about HP though. It's just been a matter of being lucky and catching HP sales lately as money is usually tight. So that was the route I took.

    If I go with a gaming laptop it doesn't really have to be the latest and greatest. In fact, getting one may be overkill as I don't game and I won't be able to even use it to watch UHD movies. Just trying to speed up CloneBD UHD transcoding. I probably wouldn't have even considered it if it wasn't for that Amazon sale.

    I like what I've seen of the AMD RX580 and GTX 1060 6G performance is ok. I was just guessing the number 580 might correspond to 1080 in the other line.

    My 2 big concerns are first, that I think you are saying there may be a power issue with it and my meager 300W supply. Or were you referring to the 1070's when you said I still have to deal with my power limitations?

    And secondly, that the HP specs say specifically that if you hook up a GPU, the internal GPU will not work. And I need that for PDVD UHD viewing.

    I know Ch3vron mentioned there may be something you have to set in BIOS to make both work, but with what you said about HP mucking around with it's BIOS, I may not be able to get them to co-exist in this desktop.

    If it seems possible and I do attempt the GPU addition, I don't mind waiting a bit if prices may drop because of an imminent launch of newer lines in a couple of months.

    Good suggestion...


    T
     
  16. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member

    Hi amazing.

    I googled this but didn't find an exact match.

    Is it a laptop? What exact model is it? Would like to look up its specs and price range.

    How do you feel about its performance?

    Do you use it with CloneBD?


    T
     
  17. testiles

    testiles Well-Known Member

    Just FYI, the price of the Acer Predator laptop I was considering dropped to $799 during Amazon Prime Day.

    That's a great price for that unit.

    I did a lot of soul-searching and decided that great deal that it is, I really don't need it. It's overkill (price-wise) for CloneBD improvement and I have another perfectly good laptop and desktop for other computer tasks.

    Tough to resist. But I think it's the right decision.

    So looks like it's adding the additional GPU or nothing at all.

    Thanks for all input guys.


    T