4K/UHD Blu-ray Discs and BDXL

[dellsam34]

It's too early to be talking about this as the specs has not been set yet but was wondering if the BDXL blank discs will be able to copy the official 4K/UHD Blu-ray discs and will slysoft be ready for this new format? What do you guys/gales think?

 

[Roycal]

I'm curious about that too. The format is starting to become available. One way to find out it just buy one of the BD's released with 4K. Here is a selection of movies on Amazon that are 4K. A 4K compatible player and BD-Burner is required for 4K but the original disks are also compatible with standard 1080P.
http://tinyurl.com/okbpt75

It would be curious to see if AnyDVDHD is capable of decoding the disk as 4K or would only decode the 1080p compatible part of the disk.

100GB BD-R's are becoming a lot more affordable too (~$20USD each compared to the $90USD each they started at). I don't really trust them myself yet as the 50GB D/L's are not as reliable as 25GB S/L's with my experience.
Just stay away from Digistor BD's. They are the cheapest because they are worst.

 

[ddjmagic]

I'm curious about that too. The format is starting to become available. One way to find out it just buy one of the BD's released with 4K. Here is a selection of movies on Amazon that are 4K.

Just a note: Those discs are still regular 1080p Blu-ray, they are just taken from a 4k Master. AnyDVD HD will handle all of those fine.

No Ultra HD Blu-ray player or disc has been released yet and protection methods for the new format haven't been officially revealed (that I know of at least)

As for Slysoft handling them, I highly doubt they will for a while at least as I'm sure new protection methods will be even more sophisticated, plus it will be such a small market it might not be worth the time/effort/expense (if it's even a possibility)

 

[Roycal]

Just a note: Those discs are still regular 1080p Blu-ray, they are just taken from a 4k Master. AnyDVD HD will handle all of those fine.

No Ultra HD Blu-ray player or disc has been released yet and protection methods for the new format haven't been officially revealed (that I know of at least)

As for Slysoft handling them, I highly doubt they will for a while at least as I'm sure new protection methods will be even more sophisticated, plus it will be such a small market it might not be worth the time/effort/expense (if it's even a possibility)

I thought these new 4K movies were really 4K using a 3 layer 100GB format. There are several standalone players and BD burners that are BDXL 100GB compatible and 4K compatible (or claim to be). These original disks will also appear as 1080p compatible if the hardware or player is not compatible with the 4K format.

IMHO the market for 4K is going to be huge. Maybe AnyDVD will have 3 choices in the future AnyDVD for DVD's only, AnyDVDHD and eventually AnyDVDXD?
If Slysoft doesn't do it some one else will.

 

[James]

I thought these new 4K movies were really 4K using a 3 layer 100GB format.

Nope.

There are several standalone players and BD burners that are BDXL 100GB compatible and 4K compatible (or claim to be).

Really? Care to share a link or two?

These original disks will also appear as 1080p compatible if the hardware or player is not compatible with the 4K format.

Really? Care to share a link or two?

IMHO the market for 4K is going to be huge.

I doubt it. What makes you think so?

 

[Roycal]

You're right! There are no UltraHD players yet, I stand corrected on that and mislead by the adverts. Apparently the true UHD players are still in the pre-release stage soon to be released this year. But there are burners that are BDXL 100GB compatible that have been around for awhile and is I understand, supposed to be the format for the UltraHD disks.

Ultra HD has 4 times the resolution of 1080p and the hardware is just around the corner. I see this as a natural evolution as DVD was to Blu Ray. There will be a huge demand for the higher resolution.

 

[ddjmagic]

I stand corrected on that and mislead by the adverts.

Yes, those 'Mastered in 4K' discs were more of a marketing strategy.

Ultra HD has 4 times the resolution of 1080p and the hardware is just around the corner. I see this as a natural evolution as DVD was to Blu Ray. There will be a huge demand for the higher resolution.

The problem is the average consumer isn't too bothered about quality. Almost 10 years on and Blu-ray hasn't really taken over from DVD, even though it's superior. I don't know the numbers but does Blu-ray even outsell DVD yet? (maybe on brand new blockbuster releases)

I don't see UHD discs being a huge market anytime soon.

 

[Pelvis Popcan]

I would think that the improvement from 1080P to 4K will be marginal (if that) unless you are using a screen bigger than 65", especially if you're using a projection and a really big screen that's like 8 to 12 feet across.

 

[rotty dog]

In the UK, Blu Ray is 15%, as ive said before, its NOT US here that determine the market its Joe Public. That figure says Joe Public is NOT interested in Hi Res disks let alone UHD disks.

Nr. 8K is already on the horizon for large screens, UHD will in my opinion be ephemeral and fail (disk based). It will very quickly be replaced by the real jump (Nr. 8K). These systems are being pushed at the shows as we speak. Nr. 8K @ up to 120 fps.

Buy UHD TV 65" and larger, but not the media.

Nr. 8K down-scaled to a UHD TV will look very good and noise will be self cancelled due to the downconversion (4 pixels down to 1).
(In the HD world, the disks referred to earlier in this thread, HD disks produced from Nr. 4k masters will of course benefit in the same way i.e. will look better in HD and up-scale slightly better than standard HD disks to UHD)

HD up-scaled and interpolated to UHD will look better anyway of course as well.

 

[dellsam34]

I would think that the improvement from 1080P to 4K will be marginal (if that) unless you are using a screen bigger than 65", especially if you're using a projection and a really big screen that's like 8 to 12 feet across.

I have 110" projection screen and Sony 1080p SXRD projector and I can tell you blu-rays are good enough for big screens at least my size, I watch from 10' away from the screen and I don't see the pixels, maybe SXRD technology is unique on that as it provides little to no black gap between pixels, But the picture looks damn good, I'm sure UHD will look crispier on my screen but it's more like for a really bigger screens, So 4k for 55" is useless unless you sit right next to the screen playing video games. I think if rental firms start carrying UHD discs the format will take off, otherwise it will be just a rich's market.

 

[Roycal]

I respectively disagree with most of the comments that are negative on UHD. People are buying 4K TV's and will want the full resolution. Some people said the same thing about moving from DVD to blu ray regarding insignificant changes in resolution and how it would probably not impact their viewing experience very much.

Also, I doubt the statistics quoted about DVD vs BD consumer market share, BD's grew rapidly in popularity starting about 1 year ago. Tried to google it and could find very little credible data. One problem with hardcopy disk media is that is rapidly loosing market share to streaming. The better the streaming gets, the more DVD and BD sales drop off.

It would be interesting to know what the ratio of AnyDVD vs AnyDVDHD licenses are, but that is just a small cross section of the whole HD market.

We will probably all know the future of UHD within about 6 months or less though .

 

[Roycal]

Nr. 8K is already on the horizon for large screens, UHD will in my opinion be ephemeral and fail (disk based). It will very quickly be replaced by the real jump (Nr. 8K). These systems are being pushed at the shows as we speak. Nr. 8K @ up to 120 fps.

Buy UHD TV 65" and larger, but not the media.

It's amazing how fast the tech is advancing. There will always be something in pre-release for the inflated alpha prices. But there are a lot of people buying 4K HDTV's these days, especially this weekend in the USA thanksgiving day sales. There is a potentially huge 4K audience now that the prices are reasonable.

BTW, Happy Thanksgiving to the USA! And don't buy any fake 4K BD's

 

[rotty dog]

Hi Roycal

Yes im ALL in favour in UHD TV's.
Totally agree with you.

I have no problem with UHD Disks as such, the failure of this media is not me being negative, its the public NOT being interested.
It's not us on here that control this though.

The 15% Blu ray / 85% DVD says that.

If its 15% for Blu Ray after 10 Years what will it be for UHD Disks.

That is the reason I wont be buying into the format, it will not be around long enough.
Nr. 8K will of course be around much longer and generate much higher confidence, the public will not ever buy into higher than that, (at least not in our lifetime.) famous last words LOL

Just as a point of interest, we all keep calling it 4K but its UHD i.e. HD X 4 (pixels)
This has been done so the up/down scaling is an exact match, i.e. no aliasing.
8K will not be actual 8K but HD X 16 (pixels) for the same reason.

UHD TV 3840 x 2160
4K Native 4096 x 2160

I think that the terms "4K UHD" and "8K UHD" are the being used to make that differential.

 

[ddjmagic]

But there are a lot of people buying 4K HDTV's these days, especially this weekend in the USA thanksgiving day sales. There is a potentially huge 4K audience now that the prices are reasonable.

Lot's of people have brought 1080p displays over the last 10 years, but still continue to buy DVD over BD.
I don't see that changing with UHD BD and it will be an even smaller market, since it is competing with DVD, BD and digital media.

Nr. 8K will of course be around much longer and generate much higher confidence, the public will not ever buy into higher than that, (at least not in our lifetime.) famous last words LOL

I do not see another physical format after UHD BD (especially if that does sell poorly) 8K will most likely not see the light of day on a physical format (IMO)


One of the things holding UHD back for me at least is lack of true content, some new films are still shot at a lower resolution than 4k, and even most of those shot in 4k or higher are finished in 2k, so would be upscaled on the UHD format.

Example - Out of the top 10 grossing films so far this year, only Spectre has a 4K Digital Intermediate, the rest are 2k.
Which is hard to believe considering the push of UHD the last year or so.

That said, I'm more interested to see what HDR and better bitrate/compression brings to UHD BD rather than just the higher resolution


Edit: on a side note - I read this "interview" a couple of months back, basically it was making fun of the lack of info from the BDA surrounding UHD BD at the time, made me laugh at least

 

[rotty dog]

Yes BD may well be the last physical format.

But the storage needed for higher and higher resolutions needs to be much higher, even with the new compression techniques.

Cloud storage is pathetic and untrusted, and also if you have ever had the experience of watching a Movie in this way from these Companies you will understand LOL. Plus it is nowhere near as good as an actual BD Disk in quality.
So we sort of have 2 options. Store it ourselves on Hard Drives or store it per Title on Physical Disk.

I have 32TB storage that I use for DVD and Blu Ray but how many people would do that and also that storage would need to be much higher and backed up/mirrored.
The high size of storage is becoming a real problem for people and Companies with backing up, even with the fastest point to point transfer.

So I am on the fence re it being the "Last" of disks because the irony is that its coming round to full circle now, where that option, i.e. physical disks is the easiest.

P.S. By physical disk I do mean BD ROM not burned -R.
I would reckon that a good quality -R burned at slow speed will still only be reliable for about 10-15 years at most.
Ill get some abuse for that statement I know but time will tell.
I think that there was some talk a while back re a stone based surface rather than a dye (not sure). Don't know if that ever became available. The intention was to make a burned disk about as permanent as a pressed ROM.

 

[whatever_gong82]

Yes BD may well be the last physical format.

But the storage needed for higher and higher resolutions needs to be much higher, even with the new compression techniques.

Cloud storage is pathetic and untrusted, and also if you have ever had the experience of watching a Movie in this way from these Companies you will understand LOL. Plus it is nowhere near as good as an actual BD Disk in quality.
So we sort of have 2 options. Store it ourselves on Hard Drives or store it per Title on Physical Disk.

I have 32TB storage that I use for BD and Blu Ray but how many people would do that and also that storage would need to be much higher and backed up/mirrored.
The high size of storage is becoming a real problem for people and Companies with backing up, even with the fastest point to point transfer.

So I am on the fence re it being the "Last" of disks because the irony is that its coming round to full circle now, where that option, i.e. physical disks is the easiest.

I'm really enjoying this discussion thread, for that the people on here are at least keeping tabs on the latest and greatest thing, but are smart enough not to try to stay up with the Joneses if it is not needed.

I probably won't get the UHD BD format, due to the current cost, and the fact that I'm more than pleased with the Blu-ray collection that I have right now.

However, if the prices for UHD BD ever get to around Blu-ray, than I might decide to switch over to that format.

 

[ddjmagic]

Yes BD may well be the last physical format.

But the storage needed for higher and higher resolutions needs to be much higher, even with the new compression techniques.

Cloud storage is pathetic and untrusted, and also if you have ever had the experience of watching a Movie in this way from these Companies you will understand LOL. Plus it is nowhere near as good as an actual BD Disk in quality.
So we sort of have 2 options. Store it ourselves on Hard Drives or store it per Title on Physical Disk.

I have 32TB storage that I use for BD and Blu Ray but how many people would do that and also that storage would need to be much higher and backed up/mirrored.
The high size of storage is becoming a real problem for people and Companies with backing up, even with the fastest point to point transfer.

So I am on the fence re it being the "Last" of disks because the irony is that its coming round to full circle now, where that option, i.e. physical disks is the easiest.

I agree completely, I'll continue to buy physical media as long as they make it and I'm sure that physical media will be with us for the foreseeable future.
I just don't see another new format, I think the market/content is going to be too small beyond UHD BD.

 

[rotty dog]

Hi DD

Yes, HD Blu Ray at 15% 10 years on = UHD BD dead in the water.

Like I said, I wish they had waited for 8K UHD Disks re longevity and would look Great on a 4K UHD screen.

 

[Roycal]

I probably won't get the UHD BD format, due to the current cost, and the fact that I'm more than pleased with the Blu-ray collection that I have right now.

However, if the prices for UHD BD ever get to around Blu-ray, than I might decide to switch over to that format.

100GB BD-R will be the biggest obstacle to backing up 4K economically. Prices started around 90USD per disk a couple of years ago and now I'm seeing prices all over the place from 3$ to 35$. The 3 layer format will probably have more reliability problems especially with the cheaper brands. I still don't even trust double layer B-r.
But am hopeful that the prices will drop and the tech will come around soon.

 

[dellsam34]

I got rid of all my DVD collection when Blu-ray became affordable, However I buy only movies that I intend to watch more than once in a blu-ray format and the rest that I only watch once they come from Netflix, I will buy UHD discs when they are priced right but I will never replace what I own on blu-ray, I'm in the middle of my age I will be buying one last laser 2160p HDR projector when they come down to about $4k and a UHD player and UHD capable receiver and UHD camcorder this will be my last gear, No 8K for me, I will leave 8k for my grand kids.