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Audio Sync Problems

So .... are avis (Generic DivX) still off - have you paid for the software? If so, log a support call with all the possible details. If you get pushed back then carry on pushing...

Can you put a clip up on the web for slysoft to access?

cad
Generic DivX and variations of it (and WMV) have NO audio lags for me (using audio delay settings for DivX). XviD (which is lagging) is NOT supported in the released profiles - it is home-brewed by some more adventurous users. I've given up on XviD because of the audio lag as DivX quality is equivalent and even that is less useful to me as WMV is much faster to encode (~30%) - my Samsung YP-P2 can use either (as input to Samsung Media Studio for conversion to its proprietary SVI format).
 
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Hello All

@ cad: Thanks for the tip. I did add that line to the iPod part of devices.ini and it HAS made a difference. The audio is ALMOST in sync; I just need to try different delay values to sync it perfectly. Just a small correction, I think the delay is in seconds, and not milliseconds, i.e. 0.1 gives a video delay of a tenth of a second (100 milliseconds). But THANK YOU.

@ KnoWei: Totally agree with you – I read all of the previous posts as well – and if it wasn’t for cad I don’t think this issue would have been acknowledged at all. It seems odd that such a smart company as SlySoft can’t nail this bug.

@ c000324: I haven’t tried AVI (I only need movies on my iPod) but cad’s fix is certainly working for me.

Happy New Year!
:)
 
...It seems odd that such a smart company as SlySoft can’t nail this bug...

I think this is more about a combination of a myriad of environmental factors that exist in the world of software (encoding codecs, playback devices, decoding codecs, bit rates, etc., etc.) than software design. Slysoft, from prior posts, hasn't been able to recreate the problem so it's kind of hard to fix what they can't see. That doesn't me some of us don't see it - I know because I'm an eye witness. :) At any rate by making minor mods to the .ini we may actually be just compensating for something in our environment.

~KnoWei
 
I have an idea on how to narrow this down (it can't be odd encoder codecs on machines as mencoder has, I believe, the codecs built in to encode...?!?). Therefore for mp4s on an Ipod the issue must be with mencoder? Have you played the mp4 on your desktop machine......?

Anyway, my idea is to show which filters are used to decode the file in MediaPlayer or something that uses DirectShow to play the file. This assumes you can realise the issue in MediaPlayer? If its an apple player it definately is mencoder as I strongly doubt the apple player uses DirectShow/X

So if you can hear the problem in ms media player you can download a program called GraphEdit

http://download.videohelp.com/download/graphedit9060822.zip

and render the video file, it will tell you what filters are playing the file under direct show. This may help track the problem down.... you can then get the versions of the filter dlls and supply to Slysoft......

Another usefull way to determine the audio offset is to use ffdhow tryout. Install this and set it to decode your audio codec. Then you can use the audio offset in the ffdshow util to find the number of milliseconds.... saves all the guessing and time wasting...

Sorry for the rushed response - on my way out and wanted reply.....

cad
 
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KnoWei,

One should press for user definable profiles. Peer has talked about them but if they are implemented then at least all the hard work with peoples profiles will not be erased with a software update, as it is currently....

cad
 
KnoWei,

One should press for user definable profiles.

cad

I couldn't agree more. I think it's very useful.


...it can't be odd encoder codecs on machines as mencoder has, I believe, the codecs built in to encode...?!?
That is correct as stated elsewhere by Peer. MEncode does *not* use codecs on your machine to encode. So the MEncode provided codecs are part of the complete production-to-playback chain that we can vary through config files at the moment.


Therefore for mp4s on an Ipod the issue must be with mencoder? Have you played the mp4 on your desktop machine......?
Could be but not everyone has the problem and most notably Slysoft can not reproduce it. If others don't have the problem could the iPods be the variable? This does seem unlikely. We'd have to have detailed info on iPod firmware revs to pinpoint this. Can't wait for my iPod so I can test this issue for myself. :)

Anyway, my idea is to show which filters are used to decode the file in MediaPlayer or something that uses DirectShow to play the file. This assumes you can realise the issue in MediaPlayer? If its an apple player it definately is mencoder as I strongly doubt the apple player uses DirectShow/X
All players are a variable in the production-to-playback chain. A computer with it's memory and processor power can (and probably will) compensate for sync issues without our intervention. A portable player with it's relative limited operating memory and processing power might not. Or if it has the memory and processing power the software might not be designed to do this.

So if you can hear the problem in ms media player you can download a program called GraphEdit

http://download.videohelp.com/downlo...dit9060822.zip

and render the video file, it will tell you what filters are playing the file under direct show. This may help track the problem down.... you can then get the versions of the filter dlls and supply to Slysoft......

Another usefull way to determine the audio offset is to use ffdhow tryout. Install this and set it to decode your audio codec. Then you can use the audio offset in the ffdshow util to find the number of milliseconds.... saves all the guessing and time wasting...

I haven't used these tools but seems to make sense - if you can pinpoint that there is a delay coming out of MEncoder and that some players are adjusting for it and how that is being done then it would be useful in understanding the "problem". And of course there are two kinds of delay - constant through the entire clip and progressive where audio gets further out of sync the longer you watch. The "fixes" for these two are bound to be different since the root cause will be different.

Sorry for the rushed response - on my way out and wanted reply.....

Hope you had a good time. :agree:

Regards,
~KnoWei
 
Thanks for the reply, my only comment is that computers add numbers up. If they didn't do it correctly then all audio/video would be out of sync.... if they didn't add numbers up generally then they'd be pretty useless.

There are many things in the chain - but it seems that only files created from memcoder give issues? Other sourced avis / mp4s are fine - thus I can only conclude that it is memcoder and not playback codecs or PC hardware. Whenever I have a mythical occurance of a software problem it gets reported as it only seems to happen randomly! It is always reproduceable, the right envirnment is simply required.

Does anyone have any home video / non copyrighted material with the issue? Then we can all encode it and also slysoft can encode it and we can all listen the the comparitive files. We need a short length non copyright DVD source that gives the issue......??!??

cad
 
Does anyone have any home video / non copyrighted material with the issue?

I'd volunteer to make one but I have to wear a mask to protect my true identity so you won't be able to see my lips move. :D

BTW I think we are in violent agreement. As you point out...
It is always reproduceable, the right envirnment is simply required.

I'm expecting the arrival of a Nano in a couple more weeks. I'll start running tests on mp4s then and if I can reproduce it with non-encrypted material I'll share the clip if someone hasn't beaten me to it.

~KnoWei
 
Thanks for the reply... it would be great to have that DVD source, if possible some quick speech with visible lips - just what I'm sure nobody wants to supply :agree: .... sounds yuk...but that is the best test.

5 mins should do it and then it can be put on a file share as a zip for all to try. Let's hope you do get the problem when re-encoding the source to mp4! Ipod aside do you get the issue on the pc when playing mp4s?

cad

p.s. progressive audio sync issues were the reason I gave up with AutoGK - there was no way to demux the audio and re-mux it again without taking the file apart in chunks and fixing each part.
 
Hello All!

@ KnoWei: I’m really not sure it has much to do with playback devices, decoding codecs or bit rates. I have tried watching the created video on 4 very different machines (Pentium D, Athlon 64, MacPro running Windows within Parallels and an iPod nano) and in each case I see the same delays.

@ cad: yes I have read somewhere that mencoder has the codecs built in. Yes I played the MP4 back on my desktop machine – still the delay (I have tried both Windows Media Player and QuickTime Player). And presumably the Apple player on the iPod itself cannot possibly be using DirectShow/X? This all points to a software bug inside the SlySoft software? I have also purchased the CuCusoft convertor, and although the video quality is not so good (and it has a bug of not being able to read all DVDs) the video / audio sync is ALWAYS perfect. Again, this is the same systems that I am trying the SlySoft software.
Did you mean ffdshow or ffdhow?

From all my experiments, the audio/video sync seems very much something that is part of the data in the MP4 file, NOT part of the playback hardware/software. As said above, a file produced with Slysoft on any of my various systems will play back with delay on any of the systems. A Cucusoft created file will play back fine on any of the above systems.

I have a home video that I had previously converted to DVD using Pinnacle (about 2 years old). I tried ripping this to hard disc and then using ClondeDVD Mobile to convert this to MP4 – all worked perfectly, no sync problems at all!! Hmmmmm.

Is anyone from SlySoft still monitoring this thread?

I don’t have time today, but it would easy to record a home video of, for example, hammering in some nails to a piece of wood? Makes it very easy to test for sync? I would happy to send this Slysoft in an attempt to help “nail” this problem (sorry, couldn’t help the pun :) ).

All the best
 
Hi guys, sorry I've been tied-up and unable to get back to the forum.

First of all, Firemoth, your idea about filming the hammering of nails is a good one. I was coming to the same conclusion but was thinking whacking two blocks of wood together. I like nails better for the symbolism. :agree:

One thing I wonder about doing a home video though. Isn't professional material actually recorded on separate devices and then mastered and multiplexed in post production? So typical DVD source material has multiple streams of data for sound and video. That won't be the case for me and my handy-cam which I believe is all one stream - or at least it is not processed seperately at any time and then brought back together. So it may not be apples to apples although there will no doubt be some stress relief realized while pounding away on those nails. :)

Firemoth as you said,
I’m really not sure it has much to do with playback devices...
I just meant we have to leave all the options on the table until they are eliminated with empircal testing. Which it sounds like you've made some strides doing.

I did try to read through some historicals at MEncoder but their forum is a real pain in the neck to read and find stuff in. I did find heated references to A/V sync issues and one senior poster ranting about how it had been addressed 1000's of times but in the time I had available I couldn't turn up how that community has addressed the problem. As time permits I'm going to continue digging through their forums. MEncoder has been around for a while so this has probably been answered. Of course there are different audio and video codes in use within MEncoder so we have to determine is the constant sync problem (as opposed to the progressive sync problem) for all or just some combinations.

~KnoWei
 
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From another (unnamed) product's feature list:

One problem with other DVD ripping software is getting the correct frame rate, have you noticed audio sync problems with other products you've used? Our software will detect Progressive 24hz DVD's and set the correct frame rate accordingly.

I get the feeling most of these rippers are written in region 2 and PAL has something to do with it. Being that PAL syncs at 25 hz which is close to a movie's frame rate of 24hz and NTSC syncs at 30hz.

Basically it's not that the audio is out of sync, it's the video that's wrong.
 
The audio out of sync seems to be an anomaly..

..since I have been able to successfully copy old (Casablanca/Willy Wonka) and new (Bourne Ultimatum). Star Trek TNG is out of sync and not linearly since I can adjust the audio to the point where it is in sync with the video and a few seconds later it is drifting again. I have used AnyDVD alone and with CloneDVD2. I have used several competing products including Shrink and Corel's CopyDVD. I'm guessing the frame rate is different than the audio rate and have tried using Premiere CS3 to get them the same but it is too much work.

I am running Vista Ultimate on a Quad Core/3GB system. My conclusion is this has nothing to do specifically with the SlySoft products since other competitor products get the same results.

All that said, I'd love a solution like everyone else. Thanks everyone.
 
I don't do a conversion per se, just copy the VOB to my harddisk. I use Premiere CS3 to work with a clip so once the VOB is on my system I just change the extension to mpg. This has worked for every other VOB I have ever used (many) including the other files I referenced above.
 
So,

Just to confirm

1) VOB (copy with AnyDVD) -> MPG
2) Play MPG (in media player?)
3) Audio sync issue?

cad
 
AnyDVD Rip DVD to Disk

Chg VOB file extension to MPG

Media Player is only audio, no video.

Premiere CS3 takes extremely long to conform the file (about 20 minutes). The process loops through the file over and over again (hundreds of times in process monitor). The final is linked video and audio that plays but is out of sync.
 
I think this thread is only about sync issues after converting using CloneDVD mobile
 
I get that and am happy to post to another forum but in reading through the posts here the problem seems to be the same and may not be specific to mobile. Thanks in any event.
 
Point taken, have you tried the AnyDVD forum - its a much better served forum and should give you better results....?
 
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