BD 50GB

[njweb]

I was not exactly enough: Some discs have a min write speed of 2x so you can´t burn with less than 2x. Burning a normal BD ISO to BD 50 could work with 4x or 6x burning. I never had problems here. My advice for burning 2x is was meant for UHD burning because of the problems with the layer break here.
@coopervid explained that before. BD has 23,3 GB each layer and UHD 33 GB per layer. Because of this you have the layer break at 23,3 during burning and the layer break of the disc at 33. So here you have 2 possible sources of error for interruptions in the film during playback.
My problem was a stuttering during playback in the middle of the film caused by high burn speed. Since I reduced to 2x everything was fine. Normal BD 50 burned 6x played fine for me. I tested several brands but for UHD backup I really recomand this:

Several spindels whithout fails. Current media code is:MEI-T02-001

That´s exactly what I would do

Please contact @coopervid in this point. He has quiet more experience in this testing programms I think. My experience is more in the area burning itself and the diffrent brands of blanks with theyr own properties.
It will not be honest if I tell you somthing that I don´t know for sure.

Thanks!
Interesting about the layer break. Too bad you had stuttering.
When you say "normal BDR 50 burned fine at 6x, but UHD backups did not at 6x", you mean normal 50 GB data discs worked, but when you backed up UHD video discs you had issues?
Did you burn from ISO or burn a data disc with BDMV + CERITIFCATE folder structure? However, when I chose the convert to ISO option in CloneBD, it did not work in my player, when I chose the convert to folders (BDMV + CERTIFICATE) instead, it worked fine - same disc... Seems CloneBD did something wrong when creating the ISO.

Regarding testing programs, understood. The question was directed to you, him or anyone else reading this thread.


My Philips discs work great. While I did not explicitly check the layer break spot during playback of 50GB BD-R DLs with UHD content from my original discs shrunk to fit on the 50GB blank, I did not notice any stuttering and the discs tested fine with VSO Inspector.

Also the German thread you sent (thanks a lot) had the EXACT same experience I did with the below MIDs... Both mentioned on the same page of the thread, one working great, one not working well at all.
My experience (which is the same):
The HP 50GB discs with Verbatim MID had a high failure rate (close to 50%) on my LG BU40B - 3 failures of 7 discs burned so far - first 2 or 3 burned well. Have 2 or 3 left (had 1 pack of 10), so will try burning one on my BDR-212...
The Philips 50GB discs with CMCMAG MID were perfect 100% of the time in my LG BU40N, even burned at 6x! 7 perfect burns so far. 23 discs left (had 3 spindles of 10) Will see how they burn with the BDR-212.

Looking forward to trying the 10 pack (blue pack) of Verbatim 'Hard Coat' 50GB discs and the 20 pack of Verbatim Japan 4X Coopervid and you recommended...
Will try them with both burners (LG and Pioneer), before I switch 100% of my burning to Pioneer.

Time for me to try the 'disc quality' testing programs later tonight or tomorrow...

 

[kufo]

When you say "normal BDR 50 burned fine at 6x, but UHD backups did not at 6x", you mean normal 50 GB data discs worked, but when you backed up UHD video discs you had issues?

Exactly that is what I meant.
The main point is the media code. With this you can see when the manufacter makes changes in his product. The cover may be the same then but the product can behave totally different as you are used to. Recently I had one spindel with code Verbatim. The worst crap I ever had....I got them as a present and so it was no problem for me.
We will see what your testing with different blanks on different burners will show.

However, when I chose the convert to ISO option in CloneBD, it did not work in my player, when I chose the convert to folders (BDMV + CERTIFICATE) instead, it worked fine - same disc...

Did you take a look into the ISO? Perhaps thre is one folder missing or incomplete by unknown reason. I always create folder output for burning. Only for full backups 1:1 I create an ISO file.

Time for me to try the 'disc quality' testing programs later tonight or tomorrow...

Let's see what they will show.

 

[njweb]

Exactly that is what I meant.
The main point is the media code. With this you can see when the manufacter makes changes in his product. The cover may be the same then but the product can behave totally different as you are used to. Recently I had one spindel with code Verbatim. The worst crap I ever had....I got them as a present and so it was no problem for me.
We will see what your testing with different blanks on different burners will show.

Did you take a look into the ISO? Perhaps thre is one folder missing or incomplete by unknown reason. I always create folder output for burning. Only for full backups 1:1 I create an ISO file.

Let's see what they will show.

Thanks. Right, I know, from my CD and DVD burning days years ago, about manufacturers changing media plants / manufacturing to other locations / other dyes etc. without notice, even though the packaging stays the same. So until you check the MID, you never know...

I will check the MID on my Verbatim Hard Coat 6x discs and Verbatim JP 4x discs later today or tomorrow and report back in this thread.

The ISO created by CloneBD did have the folders (BDMV and CERTIFICATE). I then instead of wasting time, tried the 'folders / files' option right away and it successfully created the BDMV / CERTIFICATE folders again, but this time it worked for playback.
For burning, the files / folders option is only slightly longer (than ISO option) to set up - I just select 'files folders to disc' option ImgBurn and then it only takes less than a minute to add the two folders to the data disc and type the disc label and start the burning.
So since ISO barely saves 1 minute vs. the 'files / folders' option, I did not waste time investigating the issue with ISO creation in CloneBD; even if I know what was wrong with the ISO, there is nothing I could change anyway; Elby CH would have to fix it.
Surprised nobody reported it to them yet though.

 

[kufo]

When I create an ISO file with AnyDVD as a full backup it doesn't need more time as creating a folder. If you create an ISO file with CBD you need a bit more time because it can not be done in one step. First there is a data file and the ISO will be created out of this file. I'm only using Imgburn for burning files/ISO or creating ISO from files.
Im using this from on my first atempt with converting and burning BD in BDRrebuilder.
That's now 12 years ago.

 

[coopervid]

Detailed scan options with Optidrive Control are limited to some old LiteOn drives. Newer drives don't work. VSOInspector is your best choice.

 

[njweb]

When I create an ISO file with AnyDVD as a full backup it doesn't need more time as creating a folder. If you create an ISO file with CBD you need a bit more time because it can not be done in one step. First there is a data file and the ISO will be created out of this file. I'm only using Imgburn for burning files/ISO or creating ISO from files.
Im using this from on my first atempt with converting and burning BD in BDRrebuilder.
That's now 12 years ago.

Thanks.
I was saying the opposite. ISO is 1 minute quicker than files/ folders, but CloneBD ISO feature seems to have a bug with ISO creation. So I have CloneBD create BD folders (BDMV and CERTIFICATE) instead of ISO. Note - The ISO contains the BDMV and CERTIFICATE folder, but had another issue so the video / disc does not play when using 'ISO'. CloneBD 'Files / folders' option works fine and only takes 1 min more than ISO method, to drag the two folders to the disc content pane on the left of IMGBurn.

 

[coopervid]

I check that. Never heard that CloneBD ISO creation has an issue. Will report back. Maybe yor temporary folder fo ISO creation is the issue.

 

[njweb]

Detailed scan options with Optidrive Control are limited to some old LiteOn drives. Newer drives don't work. VSOInspector is your best choice.

Thanks! Right, I found out above the disc quality does not work with non LiteOn drives as I suspected.
VSO told me my Philips surface scan is 100% Good (all Green), but I also wanted to know if the Philips discs have higher jitter / other issues etc. and, mostly, want to know whether they will last as long as Verbatim JP 4X or not...

IF (big if though...) the Philips really is the same quality and will last as long as the Verbatim Japan 4X discs, then I could save by simply keep using the Philips (cmcmag-di6-000) since they only cost $1.39 a disc $13.99 for 10 pack of 50GB discs, vs. $2.40 per disc for the Verbatim JP 4x (20 pack for $48).
I guess now I could spread my burns across 2 media - Philips 6X and Verbatim Japaa 4X (not including the Verbatim dark blue pack of 'Hard Coat' 50GB discs - only bought 10 of those).
If one fails early (e.g. after 1 or 2 years), at least "only" half my library is lost and I still have the originals anyway.

If the Verbatim will last longer, I would rather pay the extra $1 per disc and only use Verbatim Japan 4X to have discs that last longer... Time is money...

However, based on your feedback, I will stick with the Verbatim JP for now and see if I can get a used LiteOn BD drive cheap just to run quality scans (since I already have my LG and Pioneer for reading and burning duties), then that would help me to decide which blanks to use for the long term...
[and technically have my older Asus BD drive as an extra drive, just in case I guess].

.
Will also re-read the media thread Kufo sent yesterday (read it on my phone screen while away from home).

 

[coopervid]

This is unfortunetly more complicated than you think. Even if the Japanese discs are the best quality you can get the drive that burns them must have a good burning strategy - which doesn't seem to be case for most LG drives. Therefore youe results with the Philips discs and that LG drives might actually work better compared to the better Japanese Verbatim discs. So - you need the best discs in conjunction with a drive that works best with them - in a nutshell.

 

[coopervid]

To play it safe. You can burn BDs to 25GB discs w/o any issues. Burning to 50GB discs you should check if the burns are reliable. Otherwise keep them on a HDD until you are sure that the discs can be read w/o errors.

 

[njweb]

To play it safe. You can burn BDs to 25GB discs w/o any issues. Burning to 50GB discs you should check if the burns are reliable. Otherwise keep them on a HDD until you are sure that the discs can be read w/o errors.

I think CloneBD has a bug under certain scenarios. There were no errors reported with the ISO creation and I also had plenty of free disc space. When I used the same drive to rip, same (CloneBD) software to create folders for the same original video disc, it worked perfectly.
But I will try one more time just to rule out a one-time issue with CloneBD.

Re. 25GB suggestions, thanks. I back up my UHD original discs with full surround sound, so I need to burn to 50GB blanks to get the best possible UHD quality, especially given that 50GB is already compressed from the original size. Shrinking to 25GB would take a lot longer for encoding and also reduce the quality of the video too much for my personal preferences. I know for others it might be a good alternative / option.

 

[njweb]

This is unfortunetly more complicated than you think. Even if the Japanese discs are the best quality you can get the drive that burns them must have a good burning strategy - which doesn't seem to be case for most LG drives. Therefore youe results with the Philips discs and that LG drives might actually work better compared to the better Japanese Verbatim discs. So - you need the best discs in conjunction with a drive that works best with them - in a nutshell.

Thanks, understood!
Right and that (respected burning strategy) is another reason why I got the Pioneer, based on your suggestions, for all my burning going forward.
If time permits, I will use all combinations and compare the quality. At a minimum I will try the two combinations in bold, both using the Pioneer:

• Pioneer burner + Philips 6x media
• Pioneer burner + Verbatim Japan 4x media
• LG + Philips 6x media
• (LG + Verbatim Japan 4x media)

My bigger concern was that at clubmyce people said the 206 and 208 are better than the 209 which is better than the 212, but I wanted a drive that is new and still being produced - for several reasons, including perhaps a better chance of new firmware than some older drives...
That being said, they are nor developing like they used to and are only still only at 1.01 for these drives (212 at least)... Hopefully Pioneer develops a new firmware with updated / improved burn strategy for new / more media...

I used to have some top DVD burners years ago (Plextor PX716A and Sony DRU500A e.g. - still remember the model numbers after many years - also had some nice Philips burners when they were a bigger player) and rebadged re-flashed LiteOn CD burners etc.; that was all back in the old days, before I stopped burning for MANY years...
Now getting back in the game for my Blu Ray discs.

 

[coopervid]

Your concerns regarding Pioneer drives are valid. They had sometimes switched to rebadged drives from other OEMs. Make your tests. They are very much appreciated.

 

[kufo]

Thanks.
I was saying the opposite. ISO is 1 minute quicker than files/ folders,

How can that be? ISO file will be created after finishing the job. I will have to test it.

 

[njweb]

CloneBD job has several 'output' options (do not have the app open now with the exact names for the options), but two main ones for my needs are:

• One output option creates an ISO image file with the folders built in (<< which has an issue for me)
• Another output option (which I use) is it can create folder / files - i.e. create the BDMV and CERTIFICATE folders to the hard drive directly (i.e. not an ISO).

The second option takes 1 minute longer to burn because instead of just importing the ISO into ImgBurn (as I do for Option 1), with the 2nd option I have to add the two folders above manually to ImgBurn disc content window (and add disc label) before I can burn - that extra minor step takes an extra minute.

So, as an exampe, if option 1 is 1 hour to encode and then 40 minutes to burn; option 2 is also 1 hour to encode, but takes 41 minutes to burn due to the extra step in bold above.

 

[kufo]

Ah´, I know what you mean....But what about the extra time in CBD creating the image? Even with an SSD it should last about 3 min. CBD creates ISO file from the BDMV, CERTIFICATE folders in temp path. For only burning there´s no need to create an image.

 

[njweb]

Ah´, I know what you mean....But what about the extra time in CBD creating the image? Even with an SSD it should last about 3 min. CBD creates ISO file from the BDMV, CERTIFICATE folders in temp path. For only burning there´s no need to create an image.

Exactly. Think we're saying the same thing and that's my point - Given that the 2 CloneBD output options (ISO vs' folders / files output) take almost the same time, I did not see the benefit of my spending time trying to figure out why the ISO option does not seem to be working in CloneBD...
Howsever, that being said, I will try to give the ISO option the benefit of the doubt, as they say, and try one more time.

Anyway, been busy today, but will try to test the Pioneer and start testing various media with it tonight... I can't promise that I will get to it tonight, but I will try...

 

[coopervid]

Ideally the burn quality should be checked with a drive that supports the functionality in OptiDrive. The manual from 2012 says this.

Testing BD media currently only works with the LiteOn DH-4O1S , iHES106
and iHES208 and other BD drives with a Mediatek chipset.

But it seems to be a waste of money and time these days to find such an old drive for the only purpose of testing burn quality.

 

[kufo]

Anyway, been busy today, but will try to test the Pioneer and start testing various media with it tonight... I can't promise that I will get to it tonight, but I will try..

Funny thing with your ISO problem. I'm pretty sure you'll find a simple solution for this.

 

[njweb]

Funny thing with your ISO problem. I'm pretty sure you'll find a simple solution for this.

Thanks.
Will wait for Elby to fix it. But not worried frankly since their other option (creation of folder / files instead) works fine and takes about the same time as we both mentioned.