PDVD8 & TrueHD Audio

[andy o]

I just called Asus and the first tech guy told me your HDMI port has no audio stream just video stream and then he transfered me to more a senior tech and now they said your on board HDMI does have audio stream like SPDIF 5.1 out. Well I don't trust them and if you can confirm with us or at least to me that your on-board HDMI has audio stream and whether carry 7.1 LPCM audio, it will be great. Thanks!

Yes, I realized that it is the same audio as my 3650. The reason I bought is when the time I need to route my HDMI back to the X-tension for video only, I can use this HDMI out without the adapter and I never need 2 DVI out and I prefer to have more choice, HDMI, DVI and VGA out in this card.

Yeah, I would have chosen that card for that too, I actually did choose an MSI nVidia 8600GTS just for that feature alone (though you'd need a S/PDIF 2-pin out from your mobo or sound card for that one). Just wanted to make sure you were not one of those being virtually conned by ATI into their "HDMI audio" marketing. As long as you know what you're getting, that card looks great. I even felt tempted to return my recently-bought 3450 that I got for a disappointing slimline (that one is going back!), so I don't need slim profile anymore. But alas, I already sent the rebate.

About the Asus board, I will be getting it later in the week. But like I said, I don't have a receiver right now, and I don't really need it. I don't even have a big-screen TV, just my 26" NEC monitor. A plasma would be in order before a receiver I think. And before that, I would probably have to move. In any case, the G35 chipset and the ASUS board are being touted, and confirmed by some users at avsforum, to do 8-channel uncompressed LPCM. I think that's the main advantage over G33, and G45 will bring H.264 and VC-1 acceleration as well as HDMI 1.3, but I don't need those.

If anyone is using the Asus P5E-VM HDMI, please let us know their experience?

 

[dharris]

Right, and that's being done by the player not the amplifier. LPCM is the only way to mix audio streams together. Bitstreaming doesn't allow for that. Bitstreaming is the method used to send a TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/etc track directly to the receiver for it to decode. Using that method, no PIP audio.

Right. Sorry Im a little confused by the previous comments. The whole 1.3 hdmi nonsense is only a requirement to bitstream and pass DDTHD and DTSHDMA. Otherwise, you can use existing hdmi hardware (assuming it supports it) to pass 8 channel audio via LPCM (for these purposes, lets just assume the same as the other formats). In the case of the intel chipsets and the upcoming 8200 IGPs from NVIDIA, they both pass 7.1 over the hdmi - unlike the amd 780g which only does 2 LPCM channel over hdmi.

Assuming the software is not restricting you (thanks PDDVD)!

EDIT: Nevermind, misread the above posts

 

[SamuriHL]

Right. Sorry Im a little confused by the previous comments. The whole 1.3 hdmi nonsense is only a requirement to bitstream and pass DDTHD and DTSHDMA. Otherwise, you can use existing hdmi hardware (assuming it supports it) to pass 8 channel audio via LPCM (for these purposes, lets just assume the same as the other formats). In the case of the intel chipsets and the upcoming 8200 IGPs from NVIDIA, they both pass 7.1 over the hdmi - unlike the amd 780g which only does 2 LPCM channel over hdmi.

Assuming the software is not restricting you (thanks PDDVD)!

EDIT: Nevermind, misread the above posts

Just to clarify HDMI 1.1 is sufficient for 7.1 LPCM. And that's what I intend to use for my audio when I get a receiver that can support it. The current crappy implementations of HDMI support on the PC do indeed seem to limit us to 2 channel LPCM which is a joke at best. Newer versions, be they HDMI 1.3 or not, will support 7.1 LPCM. If they do support HDMI 1.3, then yes, they should be able to bitstream the compressed formats if that's your thing.

Again, I know you edited your post to say you misread what I was saying, but, I just wanted to make it clearer.

 

[hlkc]

Yeah, I would have chosen that card for that too, I actually did choose an MSI nVidia 8600GTS just for that feature alone (though you'd need a S/PDIF 2-pin out from your mobo or sound card for that one). Just wanted to make sure you were not one of those being virtually conned by ATI into their "HDMI audio" marketing. As long as you know what you're getting, that card looks great. I even felt tempted to return my recently-bought 3450 that I got for a disappointing slimline (that one is going back!), so I don't need slim profile anymore. But alas, I already sent the rebate.

About the Asus board, I will be getting it later in the week. But like I said, I don't have a receiver right now, and I don't really need it. I don't even have a big-screen TV, just my 26" NEC monitor. A plasma would be in order before a receiver I think. And before that, I would probably have to move. In any case, the G35 chipset and the ASUS board are being touted, and confirmed by some users at avsforum, to do 8-channel uncompressed LPCM. I think that's the main advantage over G33, and G45 will bring H.264 and VC-1 acceleration as well as HDMI 1.3, but I don't need those.

If anyone is using the Asus P5E-VM HDMI, please let us know their experience?

Since you mentioned G45, then let me make sure first... with in the near future X-tension card (HDMI 1.3 audio) and your 3450 and my 3650 (HDCP video), we don't need the G45 MB in order to do what we want to do here, right? On the other hand, if we get the G45 MB, I assume and I hope that new MB will able to stream 8 channel LPCM audio to receiver without the X-tension and HDCP video to monitor, right?

 

[dharris]

I cant say personally but from what I have read, the g35 chipset passes LPCM 7.1 over hdmi. I assume the G45 will also do the same as well. The diff will be in the dedicated IGP that can do full HA (among other diff im sure)

Whether the g45 supports bitstream audio over 1.3 HDMI i do not know (it looks like it will support the video implementation but who knows on the audio)

 

[andy o]

Since you mentioned G45, then let me make sure first... with in the near future X-tension card (HDMI 1.3 audio) and your 3450 and my 3650 (HDCP video), we don't need the G45 MB in order to do what we want to do here, right? On the other hand, if we get the G45 MB, I assume and I hope that new MB will able to stream 8 channel LPCM audio to receiver without the X-tension and HDCP video to monitor, right?

If everything's working all right, then yeah, we wouldn't need the G45. That's in theory, assuming it's working fine, as it should.

The G45 is supposed to add HW acceleration of video formats and I'm not sure about bitstream, but G35 supposedly can already output 7.1 LPCM, and I certainly hope the Asus P5E-VM HDMI has no problem at least doing that. There are no other G35 mobos in sight, at least from the "big guys" besides a pretty crappy Intel one, which doesn't even have DVI. I think they just strapped the G35 chipset for its GPU there, which is supposedly better than the G33's.

 

[hlkc]

Yeah, I would have chosen that card for that too, I actually did choose an MSI nVidia 8600GTS just for that feature alone (though you'd need a S/PDIF 2-pin out from your mobo or sound card for that one). Just wanted to make sure you were not one of those being virtually conned by ATI into their "HDMI audio" marketing. As long as you know what you're getting, that card looks great. I even felt tempted to return my recently-bought 3450 that I got for a disappointing slimline (that one is going back!), so I don't need slim profile anymore. But alas, I already sent the rebate.

Got this GC from Newegg today but when I opened, it has 2 DVI not VGA, DVI and HDMI... Call them and they issue RMA and they said don't order this card yet and they don't know such card is in their inventory yet.

 

[andy o]

Got this GC from Newegg today but when I opened, it has 2 DVI not VGA, DVI and HDMI... Call them and they issue RMA and they said don't order this card yet and they don't know such card is in their inventory yet.

There is actually one review for the card you ordered, and he seems to have the correct card. Maybe at Newegg they just shipped you the wrong card but still have the one you want. It does look good. Now I'm not really sure what should I do with my 3450, it is not valuable enough to go through the trouble of selling it, and I don't know if it's powerful enough to make a significant difference with my G35 graphics. The G35 doesn't have HW acceleration for HD discs, but I don't think I'll be needing it with a C2D E8400 running just at native 3.0 GHz (but could be easily overclocked and still run cool).

And also there's an added "benefit" that HW acceleration would be disabled in PowerDVD (hopefully, I've not built this HTPC yet) and allow me to change color/contrast and other settings. Although it seems PowerDVD 8, at least in XP, can actually change color/contrast within the application even with HW acceleration on with Purevideo HD and UVD cards, something that 7.3 had greyed out. That is an advantage that I haven't seen mentioned in PowerDVD 8 threads, so I don't know if everyone is having it, or if it happens in Vista as well.

 

[roog]

Got this GC from Newegg today but when I opened, it has 2 DVI not VGA, DVI and HDMI... Call them and they issue RMA and they said don't order this card yet and they don't know such card is in their inventory yet.

Try the Zotac 9600GT. It doesn't have HDMI but the audio works with a DVI to HDMI cable so you don't have to use the included adapter. You do need a motherboard with a S/PDIF out pin header. Some other brands have this feature as well but check before buying. Card looks very nice with its full length cooling shield.

If you're dead set on HDMI on the card, the PALIT NE/960TSX0252 looks great but it's a 2 slot card. It also has an external S/PDIF input as well as the internal one.

P.S.- Was told by EVGA that the NVIDIA 8000 series has display problems when used with a HDTV and that the 9000 series correct this.

 

[hlkc]

There is actually one review for the card you ordered, and he seems to have the correct card. Maybe at Newegg they just shipped you the wrong card but still have the one you want. It does look good. Now I'm not really sure what should I do with my 3450, it is not valuable enough to go through the trouble of selling it, and I don't know if it's powerful enough to make a significant difference with my G35 graphics. The G35 doesn't have HW acceleration for HD discs, but I don't think I'll be needing it with a C2D E8400 running just at native 3.0 GHz (but could be easily overclocked and still run cool).

andy,
Can you point me to that review?

Try the Zotac 9600GT. It doesn't have HDMI but the audio works with a DVI to HDMI cable so you don't have to use the included adapter. You do need a motherboard with a S/PDIF out pin header. Some other brands have this feature as well but check before buying. Card looks very nice with its full length cooling shield.

If you're dead set on HDMI on the card, the PALIT NE/960TSX0252 looks great but it's a 2 slot card. It also has an external S/PDIF input as well as the internal one.

P.S.- Was told by EVGA that the NVIDIA 8000 series has display problems when used with a HDTV and that the 9000 series correct this.

roog,
Thanks for the tips. Frankly speaking, I don't need a GC. My current, before I bought this card, HD 2600 pro, is pretty good and delivered the performance I need already. Just want to try something new and see if there is any change. I am waiting the G45 MB and once I have that I plan to build a crazy HTPC with Origen 21T, yup, 10 HDD and all the things I want to get long time Until then I will just do a small upgrade here and there and see any improvements I can pick up.

 

[andy o]

andy,
Can you point me to that review?

It's on the newegg page for the card you ordered, the one you linked in a previous post:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103053

 

[hlkc]

It's on the newegg page for the card you ordered, the one you linked in a previous post:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103053

I read that one I thought there is another one. Thanks!

 

[andy o]

I read that one I thought there is another one. Thanks!

I thought you ordered that card, didn't you? But then you received one with 2 DVI ports, which is definitely a totally different model. In that review the guy did receive the card that has VGA, HDMI and DVI, so it might just be newegg sending you the wrong one. I would think they still have them in stock.

 

[hlkc]

I thought you ordered that card, didn't you? But then you received one with 2 DVI ports, which is definitely a totally different model. In that review the guy did receive the card that has VGA, HDMI and DVI, so it might just be newegg sending you the wrong one. I would think they still have them in stock.

Yes, I ordered that card, VGA, HDMI and DVI, Monday AM and arrived yesterday but with only 2 DVI out. Called Newegg and all the sku and part numbers are the same as the one in my box that's why the phone rep told me not to re-order and wait for few weeks first.

 

[andy o]

Yes, I ordered that card, VGA, HDMI and DVI, Monday AM and arrived yesterday but with only 2 DVI out. Called Newegg and all the sku and part numbers are the same as the one in my box that's why the phone rep told me not to re-order and wait for few weeks first.

I see on their website that the only two models they offer have 2 DVI ports. I wonder how the reviewer received the actual pictured card. From the model names, it seems that the model number indeed is for the dual-DVI card, maybe the HDMI card will have another model number. Bad luck I guess, but it seems like a worthwhile card, if it comes out soon enough. You still have some options though. I'd get an nVidia 9600 GT, someone recommended one with HDMI if I'm not mistaken. Do you know if your mobo has an internal S/PDIF out connector? (2-pin in a 3-pin space if I remember correctly).

 

[hlkc]

I see on their website that the only two models they offer have 2 DVI ports. I wonder how the reviewer received the actual pictured card. From the model names, it seems that the model number indeed is for the dual-DVI card, maybe the HDMI card will have another model number. Bad luck I guess, but it seems like a worthwhile card, if it comes out soon enough. You still have some options though. I'd get an nVidia 9600 GT, someone recommended one with HDMI if I'm not mistaken. Do you know if your mobo has an internal S/PDIF out connector? (2-pin in a 3-pin space if I remember correctly).

I did a similar research with the Newegg rep when I got my RMA and that's why she told me not to order it until few weeks later... Actually I won't use the HDMI audio at least for now. I use SPDIF optical to a DIP, a jitter correct/reduction unit and then SPDIF coaxial to my pre-amp. Anyway, beside what I mentioned reasons before, since I paid a bit more locally for 2 DVI I thought for a bit cheaper why not have HDMI and DVI in case I need the HDMI audio or video at later time.

 

[kdssrugby]

I just checked out windows update and there was on optional one called IDT- Audio- IDT HDMI. Anybody know what this does?

 

[JackBauer006]

IMO it's possible to output a TrueHD/DTS-HD MA or any kind of lossless Audio trough a Analog output perfectly without losing qulity or downconverting to lossy audio...
I am using 8 Analog Outputs to use 7.1 TrueHD etc. and comparing the audio to a BluRay Player with HDMI 1.3 and the lossy cores, and it sounds the same as with HDMI 1.3 and you can't compare the 8 Analog Outputs in any way with the lossy cores, so I would recommend you using the 8 Analog outputs on your MB, but this is only possible if you use Onboard Soundchips like the Realtek HD-Audio 889A (as found on the new Gigabyte MBs) or similar. I have no expiriences with add-on Cards so I'm not able to give you any advice if you're going to use a add-on card.

I hope this will help you...

I use the the Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6 with Realtek HD-Audio 889A Soundchip, the latest Realtek Drivers v1.9x, and PowerDVD 8.0 Ultra

 

[kdssrugby]

Thanks Jack, but the only thing is I prefer my X-fi to the onboard (I get a background interference at high volumes)Oh well, I ll just wait until the auzentech card comes out

 

[hlkc]

IMO it's possible to output a TrueHD/DTS-HD MA or any kind of lossless Audio trough a Analog output perfectly without losing qulity or downconverting to lossy audio...
I am using 8 Analog Outputs to use 7.1 TrueHD etc. and comparing the audio to a BluRay Player with HDMI 1.3 and the lossy cores, and it sounds the same as with HDMI 1.3 and you can't compare the 8 Analog Outputs in any way with the lossy cores, so I would recommend you using the 8 Analog outputs on your MB, but this is only possible if you use Onboard Soundchips like the Realtek HD-Audio 889A (as found on the new Gigabyte MBs) or similar. I have no expiriences with add-on Cards so I'm not able to give you any advice if you're going to use a add-on card.

I hope this will help you...

I use the the Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6 with Realtek HD-Audio 889A Soundchip, the latest Realtek Drivers v1.9x, and PowerDVD 8.0 Ultra

Hi Jack,

Thanks for your sharing. So let me try to see if I understand you or not...

With your Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6 MB, they're using the on board Realtek HD-Audio 889A Soundchip to process the D to A and output to the 8 analog mini jacks from back of the MB to your receiver/pre-amp and you get a TrueHD/DTS-HD MA sound that is better than a standalone BD player using HDMI 1.3 out to the same receiver/pre-amp. Am I understand you correctly?

Thanks