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"Disc is region free" ...means what?

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Of course it's part of Windows. But what is it doing on behest of ADvdDiscHlp64? One thing for sure: It's not processing command lines, eh?
 
Nope, afaik it doesn't inject anything but physically alters the existing code to make the disc playable in all regions

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Often AnyDVD can't determine the BD-region checking code. That might mean it doesn't know where on such discs the region check code is.
Is the region checking marking alaways at the same place?
If no: How does AnyDVD know at what position/s it is to alter it?
If yes: That question is not mandatory.

If no:
That's why it might be it just adds that playback additional code, maybe this code doesn't need to be right behind the disc checking region code.

Just a thought. Maybe again I'm wrong. But no problem maybe I'll learn s.th. :)

I must admit I don't understand Java and I'm not certain if am capable of understanding that few Java pseudo code examples, markfilipak most probably understands much better than I do. That "if that, then" appears more or less easy, but those sign codes are new to me, as said before I can't program anything.

OK probably wrong again.
It AnyDVD still knows the location Java files, but can't always make sense of them.

I'll reread and reread again.


Please quote me correctly, thx:
{...}

The region setting in AnyDVD to add code ...
I believe that's NOT how AnyDVD works. I believe that AnyDVD injects metadata into the stream that tricks PowerDVD into believing that the disc is a particular Region Code.

==>
AnyDVD just can (add) some addional extra code to the region-code to the disc virtually /to the ISO-copy?
[EDIT]
What I'm sure about 100%, the BD-ROM drive doesn't store any region code, what developers and ch3vr0n had to tell me multiple times.

--
Only I'm speculation. Believing is still not 100% sure, but also affects to me.
OK maybe it injects s.th. into the stream.
An argument against it is, that decrypted ISO copies with correct region setting also play without AnyDVD, so nothingto inject by other source (at least not by AnyDVD), at max from the (modified) region code ch3vr0n suggests or by added code. Well I at least I'm not sure what is correct myself :)

But isn't a stream is video transport signal? Has this s.th. to do with a region asking code. Whatever it is maybe the asking code is packed together with the stream.
--

Afaik with stream is meant the pure video data, still compressed, but that Java files are rather seperated small files, at least I couldn't find those the BDMV\STREAM folder with the video m2ts files.

We could need some devs to clarify (a bit).
 
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Impossible. The existing code is on a BD-ROM, and then in the BD drive's memory. The BD-ROM cannot be physically changed. And I believe that the BD drive's memory is out of reach. If both of those are true, then the only way that AnyDVD can succeed is to inject metadata into the stream that's being fetched by PowerDVD.
Very much possible on the rip, obviously it can't do it on the physical disc.

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Ch3vr0n, if that is correct, then how do you explain this:

If I have a Region A disc, and I select
(*) Region B
then AnyDVD says
  • Determined region(s): A
    Blu-ray standard region lock adjusted to Region B!
and PowerDVD says
  • THIS BLU-RAY DISC WILL PLAY BACK ON REGION A PLAYERS ONLY
AnyDVD is actually changing the Region Code. I realize that the case you cite: "not your own region", is the opposite of what I'm doing: using a fake region (Region B), but the principle is the same. I can't test your scenario because I don't have a Region B disc.

From PowerDVD's response, I can conclude that PowerDVD still recognizes that the BD drive is Region A but thinks that the disc is Region B (because AnyDVD made it Region B). So "the region where the disc is from" can't be correct. Do you follow my logic?
No, AnyDVD is changing what PowerDVD reads from the disk into instructions to show that message.
 
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Why does AnyDVD leave users to reverse engineer how it determines (and sets) Region Code instead of just telling users how it works?

Now, don't get me wrong: I love AnyDVD. But this confusion is not helpful.

Because nobody else has such difficulty following simple instructions.

It's f**king simple.

Tell AnyDVD the region the disk expects to be played in.

That's all any normal person needs to know.
 
All this confusion is incredible.

Case #1, I put in a disc that's Region A, only. I tell AnyDVD to tell PowerDVD that the disc is Region B. PowerDVD refuses to play it.
Case #2, I put in a disc that's Region A+B+C. I tell AnyDVD to tell PowerDVD that the disc is Region B. PowerDVD plays it.

Case #1 is explainable.
Case #2 is not explainable.

AnyDVD is not telling PowerDVD anything.

It's making the disk look like a disk that always thinks the player is region B no matter what region the player actually is.

PowerDVD interprets what's on the disk.
 
Of course it's part of Windows. But what is it doing on behest of ADvdDiscHlp64? One thing for sure: It's not processing command lines, eh?
And you know what ADvdDiscHlp64 is doing, how?

You’ll often see several instances of the Console Window Host process running in Task Manager. Each instance of Command Prompt running will spawn its own Console Window Host process. In addition, other apps that make use of the command line will spawn their own Console Windows Host process—even if you don’t see an active window for them. A good example of this is the Plex Media Server app, which runs as a background app and uses the command line to make itself available to other devices on your network.

AnyDVD runs at the system driver level to be able to do what it does, decrypt a DVD/Bluray disc so Windows sees it as unprotected. HOW it accomplishes the work shouldn't require the GUI shell, it should use system commands.

AnyDVD running on 32-bit Windows doesn't require ADvdDiscHlp64, so no need for a conhost process.
 
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To anyone from RedFox:
I'm not trying to reverse engineer AnyDVD. I'm simply trying to figure out what the Blu-ray Disc Region dialog is showing and what it does. It would be extremely helpful if that dialog was unambigously documented.
If you refuse to simply follow the instructions given to you and insist on trying to understand how it works then please explain how "understand how it works" is not basically the same as "reverse engineer". Seems exactly the same to me.
 
Ah sorry, I quoted myself wrongly:

Please quote me correctly, thx:
The region setting in AnyDVD to add code ...
I believe that's NOT how AnyDVD works. I believe that AnyDVD injects metadata into the stream that tricks PowerDVD into believing that the disc is a particular Region Code.

=>
The best explanation that I'd have is that you used wrong region setting in AnyDVD.
The region setting in AnyDVD to add code, which (the added code) emulates that specified playing-software region you slected in AnyDVD setting, perhaps didn't match with the identification code on the Blu-ray disc.
(Is the expression "Playing-software region" fitting?
At least afaik the Blu-ray drive itself gives a damn about region code other posts mntioned here.)

So code was added to simulate e.g. a Region C playing-software, but your ISO or the virtauliced disc still also has NOT-matching region identifaction code which is not modified by AnyDVD.
That assumption would match, because AnyDVD often also can't identify the DISC-region-code anyway, so it would have problems in pretty often modfiying the identfication code itself.
Seen so far of 20 BD discs. Maybe two of those twenty Disc regions were identyfyable by AnyDVD.

Whatever it is. Even if the BD-ROM itself is read-only, when the disc is opened, I can't see what would hinder AnyDVD to make some kind of virtual overlay, which inserts/adds some code / to do some changes to the Java code adaption, to present a playing-software-region which the disc-region-identification-code wants to have to allow playback (region free), as the disc is presented through to Windows and programs.
When you rip to ISO with removing the protections, AnyDVD copies the disc content + that virtual disc manipulation (as the disc is presented when AnyDVD is ON+prtotections removed) over to ISO file (=stored permanently).

So in my opinion at least for now, I can't see why AnyDVD would need to manipulate the STREAM. STREAM to me means (Video)-STREAM.

It is "just" some region identfification (Java binary?) code and probably some addional code able for being executed and to do checks for matching playback-software-region on the disc.
------------------------
After reading the developers hints again , and seeing my older wrong comment and perhaps from others, that AnyDVD would change the region-identfication-code on the disc itself (virtually), to either A /B or C. That doesn't make sense.
If AnyDVD can't change the disc identification-code virtually to identify with all (A+B+C)-regions and because "only" 1 region, it would not make any sense to make the change to the identification code itself.

Because if the identification code itself changed virtually, the disc still would be playable ONLY on that other (single) region (mattering licensed full-feature-playback).

So the other way the the developers explained is more plausible, that AnyDVD puts some code into virtually, which interferes with the check on the discs at what playing-software-region it would tryed to be played back.

----
Just a further confused thought:
When s.o. pretends that AnyDVD would change the answering-code (instead of the region ident-code) on the Disc virtually: That would imply there would already exist code on the original disc, to answer to the region-identification code on the disc.
To me that doesn't make sense ( at least) with Discs, that allow only one or two region/s, but not all three.
So I'd conclude if there is no answering code on the disc (because A/B/C or A+B / A+C /B+C region-locked), AnyDVD just could (add) that missing answering code. (In such case If no answering-code exisiting, there's no answering code to modify)

Question:
Do all region-free-discs already have that answering code? While one/two-region locked discs lack of that answering code??

Are there BD movie discs that don't have any region code stuff stored?
Afaik I remeber the devs, told, if every disc would have to identify with at least one region, that could mean, No, all BD movie discs have region code stuff stored on.

Otherwise, yes in fact there might be BD discs without any region code stuff, when there's no code to execute, there's nothing to check. That's like region-free too.

Otherwise no, maybe PowerDVD has some kind of check which only accepts BDs to play back with a region code check, if the BD disc is region free it must identifiy with A+B+C region and answer with regardless with "A" "B" or "C",
or identify itself with region A and answers with A,
or identify itself with region B and answers with B,
or identify itself with region C and answers with C
And accept that all as region free.

LOL I'm confused, but at least it still could match with the hints from the devs that AnyDVD makes some kind of things virtually the Disc-code to get answered with a playing-software-region, specified by user in AnyDVD in the region setting boxes.
 
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@markfilipak,

I had some inaccuracies regarding region free in my previous post. I will attempt to fix my error and also to clarify this region process further. Please excuse any further errors, @James and @Pete. Also note that "play movie" is shorthand for "play a particular playlist" and "show wrong region screen" is shorthand for "play some other playlist".

In this description:
USER-REGION is the region you select in the region dialog with the radio buttons.
DISC-REGION is a region that is embedded in code that is stored somewhere on the Blu-ray disc.
PLAYER-REGION is the region code that is set in the player, PowerDVD or stand-alone hardware player. Obviously AnyDVD can only make things different for a stand-alone hardware player if you rip an original disc and burn it to a BD-R or BD-RE, during which process AnyDVD on-the-fly modifies sectors being read from the original disc.

AnyDVD tries to find the code on the disc that determines the region(s) supported by that disc. It's a tough part of the initial scan of the disc when it's inserted, sorting through all that on-disc code and recognizing something that looks like: IF PLAYER-REGION==A THEN play movie ELSE show wrong region screen ENDIF. Once the scan is complete either AnyDVD has found that code (and it can find code that handles dual-region discs, too), or it hasn't found any code and THAT'S a region free disc. [EDIT: Or AnyDVD fails to see the region checking code, and that's why we send in logs so that the developers can fix the OPD and add yet another region checking code search pattern.]

If it DOES find code on the disc whose intent, when executed in the player, is to compare PLAYER-REGION to DISC-REGION, then AnyDVD keeps track of the sectors of the disc that contain the code and will ON-THE-FLY change that code whenever any software reads those sectors from the disc. You, the user, tell AnyDVD that the disc is USER-REGION, and AnyDVD will modify the code that on the disc says IF PLAYER-REGION == DISC-REGION THEN play movie. AnyDVD modifies the code into IF USER-REGION == DISC-REGION THEN play movie.

@markfilipak, this should answer your question (and corrects my mis-statement) about a region free disc that you've told AnyDVD is Region B. Since a disc is region free there is no code on the disc that checks the PLAYER-REGION against the DISC-REGION. You can give AnyDVD any USER-REGION you want, and PowerDVD will still play it, because PowerDVD never executes any code that checks PLAYER-REGION.

But, if your disc HAS code for region checking, and you set it to the WRONG region, then AnyDVD will on-the-fly change that code when it's read from the disc and the comparison IF USER-REGION == DISC-REGION will fail and you get the wrong region screen.

Have I redeemed my previous inaccuracy with this post?

Cheers,

--michael
 
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Proposed: A new 'Blu-ray Disc Region' dialog.

This thread:
https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/disc-is-region-free-means-what.75714/
showed me that no one knows what this dialog really asks (or displays).

CURRENT
Code:
.....................................................................
: Blu-ray Disc Region                                               :
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
: A Blu-ray disc (THE_MAN_WHO_FELL_TO_EARTH) is present in drive B: :
: .. Blu-ray Disc Region .......                                    :
: : ( ) Disc is region free    :                                    :
: : (o) Region A               :                                    :
: : ( ) Region B               :                                    :
: : ( ) Region C               :                                    :
: :............................:                                    :
:...................................................................:

BETTER (dialog reworked)
Code:
.................................
: Blu-ray Disc Region           :
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:                               :
: .. Found (B:) ............... :
: : THE_MAN_WHO_FELL_TO_EARTH : :
: :         Region A          : :
: :...........................: :
: .. Substitute ............... :
: : ( ) Region Free           : :
: : (o) Region A              : :
: : ( ) Region B              : :
: : ( ) Region C              : :
: :...........................: :
:...............................:

(proposed side-by-side)
Code:
.....................................................
: Blu-ray Disc Region                               :
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:                                                   :
: .. Found (B:) ............... .. Substitute ..... :
: : THE_MAN_WHO_FELL_TO_EARTH : : ( ) Region Free : :
: :         Region A          : : (o) Region A    : :
: :...........................: : ( ) Region B    : :
:                               : ( ) Region C    : :
:                               :.................: :
:...................................................:

BEST (proposed all-in-one)
Code:
.....................................................
: Blu-ray Disc Regions                              :
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:                                                   :
: .. Found (B:) ............... .. Substitute ..... :
: : THE_MAN_WHO_FELL_TO_EARTH : : ( ) Region Free : :
: :         Region A          : : (o) Region A    : :
: :...........................: : ( ) Region B    : :
:                               : ( ) Region C    : :
:                               :.................: :
:                                                   :
: .. Found (E:) ............... .. Substitute ..... :
: :         Whiplash          : : (o) Region Free : :
: :         Region A          : : ( ) Region A    : :
: :...........................: : ( ) Region B    : :
:                               : ( ) Region C    : :
:                               :.................: :
:...................................................:

FAVORITE (proposed universal all-in-one)
Code:
.....................................................
: Disc Regions                                      :
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:                                                   :
: .. Found (B:) ............... .. Substitute ..... :
: : THE_MAN_WHO_FELL_TO_EARTH : : ( ) Automatic   : :
: :     Blu-ray Region A      : : ( ) Region Free : :
: :...........................: : (o) Region A    : :
:                               : ( ) Region B    : :
:                               : ( ) Region C    : :
:                               :.................: :
:                                                   :
: .. Found (E:) ............... .. Substitute ..... :
: :         Whiplash          : : ( ) Automatic   : :
: :    Blu-ray Region Free    : : (o) Region Free : :
: :...........................: : ( ) Region A    : :
:                               : ( ) Region B    : :
:                               : ( ) Region C    : :
:                               :.................: :
:                                                   :
: .. Found (F:) ............... .. Substitute ..... :
: :          EXISTENZ         : : (o) Automatic   : :
: :        DVD Region 1       : : ( ) Region 1    : :
: :...........................: : ( ) Region 2    : :
:                               : ( ) Region 3    : :
:                               : ( ) Region 4    : :
:                               : ( ) Region 5    : :
:                               : ( ) Region 6    : :
:                               : ( ) Region 8    : :
:                               :.................: :
:                                                   :
: .. Found (G:) ...............                     :
: :          no disc          :                     :
: :...........................:                     :
:...................................................:

I think most people will evaluate these almost instantly. Otherwise...

...Discuss

Warm Regards,
Mark.
 
In this description:
USER-REGION is the region you select in the region dialog with the radio buttons.
DISC-REGION is a region that is embedded in code that is stored somewhere on the Blu-ray disc.
PLAYER-REGION is the region code that is set in the player, PowerDVD or stand-alone hardware player. Obviously AnyDVD can only make things different for a stand-alone hardware player if you rip an original disc and burn it to a BD-R or BD-RE, during which process AnyDVD on-the-fly modifies sectors being read from the original disc.

"USER-REGION is the region you select in the region dialog with the radio buttons" :
Yes it is "defined" in some way through a user, by user picking a setting in AnyDVD ("A" or "B" or "C").

AnyDVD tries to find the code on the disc that determines the region(s) supported by that disc. It's a tough part of the initial scan of the disc when it's inserted, sorting through all that on-disc code and recognizing something that looks like: IF PLAYER-REGION==A THEN play movie ELSE show wrong region screen ENDIF. Once the scan is complete either AnyDVD has found that code (and it can find code that handles dual-region discs, too), or it hasn't found any code and THAT'S a region free disc.

I'm sry to say wrong. Just because AnyDVD can't find out a disc region-identity on the disc, doesn't mean there would be none.
DISC's often (of course not always) still have a region lock, it's just AnyDVD can't always determine the region. That's why you have to tell in the dialog the DISCs region (=Disc region identification), so that AnyDVD can add the appropriate (pseudo region player-software answering authentication code) (A-player / B-player or C-player) virtually to the disc or to the ISO. The result then is region free.

--
@markfilipak,
AnyDVD tries to find the code on the disc that determines the region(s) supported by that disc. It's a tough part of the initial scan of the disc when it's inserted...
Yes right. :)

...sorting through all that on-disc code and recognizing something that looks like: IF PLAYER-REGION==A THEN play movie ELSE show wrong region screen ENDIF. {...}
I'm not certain. I'm also not certain of myself often. Maybe correct :)

If it DOES find code on the disc whose intent, when executed in the player, is to compare PLAYER-REGION to DISC-REGION, then AnyDVD keeps track of the sectors of the disc that contain the code and will ON-THE-FLY change that code whenever any software reads those sectors from the disc. You, the user, tell AnyDVD that the disc is USER-REGION, and AnyDVD will modify the code that on the disc says IF PLAYER-REGION == DISC-REGION THEN play movie. AnyDVD modifies the code into IF USER-REGION == DISC-REGION THEN play movie.

No at least AnyDVD doesn't do the check if the player-software-region matches to the disc region. It's the checking-code on DISC which does that, along the disc has its region identity-code

But you're right in any case there is some analysis routine which watches if the player-software-region matches to the disc's identity (disc region lock).
[EDIT] ...matches to what the disc wants
[EDIT] See bottom, at least maybe I'm wrong about an exisiting disc-identicifation-region.



@markfilipak,
But, if your disc HAS code for region checking, and you set it to the WRONG region, then AnyDVD will on-the-fly change that code when it's read from the disc and the comparison IF USER-REGION == DISC-REGION will fail and you get the wrong region screen.
AnyDVD can't change the disc's region identification code itself, also not virtually nor on a copy:
With one appropriate setting either "A" or "B" or "C," you tell AnyDVD what kind of Blu-ray disc-region-identification-code is actually stored on the disc.
But AnyDVD can't change it.
But AnyDVD then "puts" addional matching (pseudo region player-software (answering-authentication-code) to the disc virtually (or to ISO permanently) to pretend to the disc's checking code, executed by the player it would be to be played in a region A / B or C player.
So that check-code on the DISC which checks if the playing software region fits to the Blu-ray disc-region-identification. Similar as you indicated. :)

So it is possible to put (pseudo region player-software answering authentication code). It just needs to matches to the disc's region- identification code, when it does, then the compare-code-_between_disc-region<->player-software-region (running from the disc) grants playback to PowerDVD. This is like region free.

If they don't match, it depends what the Java code decides (eg. just instruct the playing-software to jump to playlist file title "Wrong player region")

The disc's region-identification code itsel is not tampered, independent from what A / B or C setting you choose in the AnyDVD dialog.
[EDIT] See bottom, maybe I'm wrong about an exisiting disc-identicifation-region.

--

Every playback device must have a region. A, B or C.
Code from the disc (either Java or HDMV or whatever it is called) executed by the player can read a value to determine the region of the playback device.
The disc itself has no region marking. The player can not check or care about the discs region.
It is up to the code disc, if the player region is read at all, and if it is, if anything is done.

"The disc itself has no region marking".

I'm confused, so the disc doesn't have an region identification? It's irritating, because in AnyDVD dialog help, "to specify the region of the disc and not of the player". So I had expected the DISC had also a region. I can follow up that the players-hardware/-software) doesn't do the check, but that the code on the disc does it.

OK, if thinking further. The disc doesn't need to have an own region code.
Maybe I misunderstood completely that Blu-ray-discs were having its region-identity (A / B or C or A+B+C)
It's sufficient just to have code on the disc that knows at which playback-software-region to allow playback. So just check the player's software region, no disc region necessary to exist, so nothing to check in such a (perhaps non-existent) direction.
 
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... But isn't a stream is video transport signal? Has this s.th. to do with a region asking code. Whatever it is maybe the asking code is packed together with the stream. ...
It's okay to be confused. There is much bad information coming from people who operate on notions, not facts.

If, instead of stream, I said data stream? Would that make it easier for you to understand?

"Streams" is the name for a class of signalling in which data & metadata are serialized (that is, over a single wire, or single frequency) and transmitted according to a particular protocol -- "protocol" simply means "data format"+"connection rules". (I know your native language is probably not English, so I'm trying to make it easy for you.)

A stream can be received from the Internet, or a stream can be received from an optical disc player (or really, any source that uses "streams" methods). So, when I write that I think AnyDVD is injecting a new Region Code into the stream, I mean that it has placed itself between the optical disc player and the BD player software (for example, PowerDVD) and has thereby made itself a "stream handler" -- "handler" is a computer term meaning "a go-between that makes a connection". As it "handles" the stream, it tracks the data (video, audio, subtitles) contained in the stream. It also "handles" the metadata (like Region Code). When it receives the Region Code metadata from the optical disc player, Instead of passing the disc's Region Code to PowerDVD, it substitutes the user's desired Region Code. That's called injection. So you see, AnyDVD isn't really adding to the metadata. It's just substituting [regionA] for [regionB] in the metadata stream.

Now understand me. What I've written is my notion of how AnyDVD works. Maybe the Region Code is not actually passed in the metadata. Maybe just the "happiness" of the disc code is passed as metadata. No matter... SOMETHING is passed to PowerDVD. It's that SOMETHING that AnyDVD looks for and changes. What that SOMETHING is, only the RedFox developers can say, and they're not saying.
 
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Afaik I remeber the devs, told, if every disc would have to identify with at least one region, that could mean, No, all BD movie discs have region code stuff stored on.
To the best of my knowledge, Region Code is a field (a data item) in a BD's metadata that cannot be blank and cannot be missing. It must be present, and what the field contains must be proper. But anything that is in the "stream" (for example, AnyDVD) can change it as it passes by on its way to the player software (for example, PowerDVD).
 
To anyone from RedFox:
I'm not trying to reverse engineer AnyDVD. I'm simply trying to figure out what the Blu-ray Disc Region dialog is showing and what it does. It would be extremely helpful if that dialog was unambigously documented.
If you refuse to simply follow the instructions given to you and insist on trying to understand how it works then please explain how "understand how it works" is not basically the same as "reverse engineer". Seems exactly the same to me.
I'm not sure I received any "instructions". My objective is simply to discover what Region Code is required by each particular disc, so I can add that to my BD reviews. This information is not provided by the BDInfo application. I had hoped that AnyDVD would supply that information, but I can't figure out the Blu-ray Region Code dialog (and apparently, no one else can, either).
So, I'm reduced to trying to "understand how it works" by hacking this forum because "how it works" (actually, what the Blu-ray Region Code dialog is saying) is not documented.
 
@markfilipak ... But, if your disc HAS code for region checking, and you set it to the WRONG region, then AnyDVD will on-the-fly change that code when it's read from the disc and the comparison IF USER-REGION == DISC-REGION will fail and you get the wrong region screen.
You know, Michael, you may very well be right. Perhaps AnyDVD creates a memory-controller overlay and performs Java patching. Frankly, I don't know (but I do know what's possible, and that's possible). But you know what? I don't care how AnyDVD does its magic. I only care about what it does. Actually, I only care about this: How do I discover what region code the disc holds.
 
"Nope" what?

You know, I went to a lot of trouble to prepare my thread-starter (not to mention combatting the horrors of this forum software that wouldn't let me format the way I wanted). It's not fair of you to make a terse remark like that.
 
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