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Meltdown & Spectre potpourri

AMD released updates and I have seen people claim "zero performance loss" after said BIOS updates but I haven't seen any actual empirical data. I'm sure it's out there somewhere but I have to see it and trying to do a search results in a lot of unhelpful results.
Surely it's mainly the Meltdown fixes that significantly slow down Intel PCs that don't have, and make use of, the INVPCID instruction. No Meltdown on AMD, only Spectre and, as I understand it, much less slowdown.
 
Fudzilla: Torvalds wades into CTS Labs' AMD chip security report

[...]

IT's Mr Sweary and the creator of Linux, has hit out at CTS Labs' AMD chip security report saying that it "looks more like stock manipulation than a security advisory".

[...]

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These are real bugs though. Dan Guido, CEO of Trail of Bits, a security company with a proven track-record, tweeted: "Regardless of the hype around the release, the bugs are real, accurately described in their technical report (which is not public afaik), and their exploit code works." But, Guido admitted, "Yes, all the flaws require admin [privileges] but all are flaws, not expected functionality".

Torvalds agrees these are bugs, but all the hype annoys the heck out of him because they do not matter in the real world.

They require a system administrator to be almost criminally negligent to work. To Torvalds, inflammatory security reports are annoying distractions from getting real work done. He said that a recent Linux "vulnerability", Chaos, required the attacker to have the root password.

"News flash: If an attacker has the root password, your system is already completely hosed. Everything else is just details."

[...]
 
Dr Lisa Su also had a word on MSNBC last night. She said the previously unknown company, which she did not name, was taking known facts and over estimating their potential , she said there was nothing new that everyone in the community did not know about. Her statement is showing in AMDs stock price which didn't move at all on the news.
 
Dr Lisa Su also had a word on MSNBC last night. She said the previously unknown company, which she did not name, was taking known facts and over estimating their potential , she said there was nothing new that everyone in the community did not know about. Her statement is showing in AMDs stock price which didn't move at all on the news.

Effectively that's why I referred to the article. The article is basically saying it's manipulation and there are bugs at the same time. Yes, the approach to publicizing things was wrong and hyped. CTS Labs has harmed themselves. The reasons behind it are troublesome since it's been admitted that there were some financial motives. That being said, the reported issues do seem to exist so they didn't merely invent non-existent bugs, vulnerabilities, etc. Is the sky falling? No

Also, let's be very clear about something that I believe gets downplayed too often by [some] security experts. Linus Torvalds and many experts can sit back and say it's all fine because it requires admin privileges, local access, etc. Most people aren't them. Many users are completely ignorant so these things can and will happen when vulnerabilities exist.
 
Anandtech: Intel Publishes Spectre & Meltdown Hardware Plans: Fixed Gear Later This Year

This news really came out yesterday. The real reason I am sharing this particular story isn't because of the hardware fixes in Cascade Lake but rather the nice list down in the article about all the older CPUs that Intel has released microcode updates for. They've going all the way back to Penryn. Shocking, actually. Hopefully Microsoft releases a relevant standalone Windows update for this since expecting OEMs like Dell to push out a BIOS update for something like an old Arrandale-based laptop is absurd. Obviously, these older processors will be hurt by the update but for those who wish to be on the safe side and either do not want to or cannot upgrade to a more modern laptop at this time then that is a way of protecting themselves.

The other interesting aspect is that Meltdown & Spectre v2 are handled with hardware in-silicon fixes. Spectre v1 will remain a software fix until a hardware fix is actually found. That is troublesome but I guess 2 out of 3 isn't bad all things considered.
 
Fudzilla: Intel to bring out Sceptre hardware fixes

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While Variant 1 will continue to be addressed via software mitigations, we are making changes to our hardware design to further address the other two. We have redesigned parts of the processor to introduce new levels of protection through partitioning that will protect against both Variants 2 and 3. Think of this partitioning as additional “protective walls” between applications and user privilege levels to create an obstacle for bad actors.

"Our work is not done. This is not a singular event; it is a long-term commitment. One that we take very seriously. Customer-first urgency, transparent and timely communications, and ongoing security assurance. This is our pledge and it’s what you can count on from me, and from all of Intel", he said.

Wise move with the partitioning. Actually, I believe AMD was already doing this which is why the severity of the impact on AMD processors was not as extreme.
 
Someone told me that Cascade lake will only be Xeon processors, but I could have misunderstood it.
 
Someone told me that Cascade lake will only be Xeon processors, but I could have misunderstood it.

Correct, Cascade Lake is Xeon. But both Cascade Lake and 8th generation Core processors will get it.

Both the next version of Intel’s Xeon server/HEDT platform – Cascade Lake – as well as new 8th gen Core processors set to ship in the second half of this year will include the mitigations.
 
My next build barring any unforeseen issues will be "IceLake" 10nm, Its supposed to reach 5ghz on air. With no overclocking.
 
Correct, Cascade Lake is Xeon. But both Cascade Lake and 8th generation Core processors will get it.
It’s a bad time to buy PC hardware right now, what with graphics card prices going through the roof due to crytpocurrency mining and practically every CPU on the planet being vulnerable to the recently uncovered Spectre and Meltdown CPU flaws. Fortunately, PC land’s CPU woes may not be around for much longer, as Intel’s suggested its new, upcoming Cannon Lake and Ice Lake processors won’t be affected by the same security exploits as literally almost every other CPU they’ve made since 1995. Thank the blessed silicon gods.
 
It’s a bad time to buy PC hardware right now, what with graphics card prices going through the roof due to crytpocurrency mining and practically every CPU on the planet being vulnerable to the recently uncovered Spectre and Meltdown CPU flaws. Fortunately, PC land’s CPU woes may not be around for much longer, as Intel’s suggested its new, upcoming Cannon Lake and Ice Lake processors won’t be affected by the same security exploits as literally almost every other CPU they’ve made since 1995. Thank the blessed silicon gods.

Agreed about the current time be bad. Flawed CPUs, lost performance, high-prices for RAM, insanely high pricing for GPUs, etc. Now really is not the time to build a system unless you selectively grab the parts on sale over time and you'll really need to find some hidden gems to make it worthwhile. That's how I built my previous system. I got all the parts on sale, from retailers without sales tax, and free shipping. I saved a bundle. Nowadays, it's getting harder. I'm still stuck with my old GTX 780 which annoys me to no end. It still works for gaming but for CloneBD and the like it sucks. I can't upgrade to a GTX 1050 which would be awesome for CloneBD because it would be a step down for gaming. So, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I simply refuse to pay out the nose for a GPU because of crypto-miners. I have no qualms saying that I hope to see crypto-currency crash and burn. I am that fed up with the BS.

Hopefully the performance of the new CPUs is increased enough to make it worthwhile on top of hardware protections rather than it being a slight bump.
 
Just an update. I've been running my system with KB4090007 installed and enabled for nearly a week. There have been times that I perceived a possible loss in performance/speed for an operation but that may simply be because I am looking for it. If there actually was a loss of performance it was not catastrophic. More like negligible. I might just be seeing what I am looking for when in reality it isn't there. Confirmation bias. That said, for all intents and purposes, for how I use my system I am really not seeing performance losses. One thing I really haven't been able to test due to other on-going things is gaming. So, I can't comment on whether it will cause harm in that department.

Edit: KB4090007 covers way more processors now. More versions of Skylake, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, etc. I'm waiting to see the release of the update for really old CPUs like Arrandale.
 
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I wonder if they will go as far back as Conroe and Wolfdale.
 
I wonder if they will go as far back as Conroe and Wolfdale.

Wolfdale, yes. Conroe, probably not. If reporting is accurate then Intel does plan on pushing out the microcode updates going back surprisingly far. Given that I seriously doubt we'll see OEMs push BIOS updates to all those old systems I would expect to see Microsoft push an update that loads microcode changes at boot-time like KB4090007 does.

Anandtech: Intel Publishes Spectre & Meltdown Hardware Plans: Fixed Gear Later This Year

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Finally, Intel will also be going even further back with their microcode updates. Their latest schedule calls for processors as old as the Core 2 lineup to get updates, including the 1st gen Core processors (Nehalem/Gulftown/Westmere/Lynnfield/Clarksfield/Bloomfield/Arrandale/Clarkdale), and the 45nm Core 2 processors (Penryn/Yorkfield/Wolfdale/Hapertown). This would cover most Intel processors going back to late 2007 or so. It’s worth noting that the 65nm Core 2 processors (Conroe, etc) are not on this list, but then the later Core 2 processors weren’t on the list either at one point.

[...]

Hell. Yorkfield? Stunning if they really do it. If I get my old Q9550 running again I'll have to grab that update and see how badly it kills performance. :p

Edit: As per the article the cut-off seems to be 45nm. The 65nm and older CPUs are left out in the cold.
 
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I have not heard that myself but if it’s true it’s good news


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8th Gen. ...so there repairing coffee lake in 8700k with new batch shipping?

Not really sure come to think of it. Possibly a typo or they really will fix Coffee Lake. But will it be a real in-silicon fix or BS. Or they are simply wrong but that was what they reported. That said, at one time in an older Anandtech article they pondered if the 9th gen would be a refresh of 8th gen (Coffee Lake).

Anandtech: Intel 8th Generation and 9th Generation Processor Lists Leaked: Coffee Lake Refresh?
 
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Meanwhile for updating Intel’s consumer chips, this is a bit more nebulous. While Intel hasn’t shared the complete text of their announcement with us ahead of press time, their specific wording is that the changes will be included in 8th gen Core processors “expected to ship in the second half of 2018.” Intel hasn’t said what processor family these are (e.g. Cannon Lake?), or for that matter whether these are even going to be traditional consumer chips or just the Core HEDT releases of Cascade Lake. So there is a lot of uncertainty here over just what this will entail. In the interim we have reached out to Intel about how consumers will be able to identify post-mitigation chips, and while we’re still waiting on a more complete response, Intel has told us that they want to be transparent about the matter.

[...]

That paragraph sums it up. No one really knows. And they are referring to 8th gen and Cannon Lake in the same breath. Except Cannon Lake is 9th gen unless I got lost somewhere along the way.
 
I'm hoping Intel fixes this and the hard drives speeds go back up. To what I have read this hit puts intel chips close to amd except for single core performance. I've now got 3500 bucks saved but still waiting tell all this shit settles down.
 
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