CloneBD Question

[Fanatic]

When I copy movies I want the whole thing including all ads with previews. Now is it better to just select copy mode and burn it that way or should I compress the file before I burn? I just want the best quality possible. Thanks

 

[Ch3vr0n]

If you want all ads then you can still use both methods. Full copy means exactly that, but also ALL AUDIO as is. With partial copy you can remove unwanted audio and subs, if you then on the left click the checkbox on top of the title preview it'll select all titels including ads. However due to removing audio the compression if you chose to do so, will have less impact on the video.

That said, I've done plenty full disc copies and even with compression to bd25 it looks just fine

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[Fanatic]

OK Thank You. That was actually very helpful. I have major OCD and want the best top notch quality. I actuall will look at the video while it's playing and will examine it to see if anything is wrong. BTW do you ever get a weird like fuzziness in some of your movies in the background and if so how do you get rid of it or is that just normal?

 

[DaGoatRancher]

It is possible that if you are burning to BD25 disks, and your movie is larger than 25GB Clone BD is forced to do some compression to make it fit the BD25 disk. This could result in some video quality degradation. You will probably need to provide details on your process for someone to say for sure if this could be the issue or not.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

The dozens of BD50>BD25's i've done show zero visual issues, even in full disc mode

 

[DaGoatRancher]

I don't have any proof. I am only assuming that a normally 40GB disk compressed to fit BD25 would potentially have some video quality loss. Maybe it's nothing that I would notice, but someone else might. I never burn and I always rip entire disks w/speed menus to HDD. So I am never worried about this type of situation anyway. Just a though for the OP.

 

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

This discussion is the same as compressing a DVD-9 to DVD-5. Some people may not notice the quality loss. Some might. Some won't care. It's subjective as to what is acceptable. I would recommend that Fanatic do some testing to see if BD-50 to BD-25 is acceptable to them. Personally, I have had no issues with BD-25 backups. If you go this route and worry about video more than audio then also look at down-converting the HD audio. The space saved on the audio will reduce loss to the video. HD audio vs down-converting is purely subjective, as well. Some notice it while others do not. It's a matter of personal preference.

Note: Given the statement in Fanatic's first post they really answered their own question. They want the best quality possible. The best quality possible would be not re-encoding to fit on a BD-25. That said, BD-25 media is cheaper and if the "quality loss" is acceptable then I recommend going with BD-25.

 

[Badnews]

I don't have any proof. I am only assuming that a normally 40GB disk compressed to fit BD25 would potentially have some video quality loss. Maybe it's nothing that I would notice, but someone else might. I never burn and I always rip entire disks w/speed menus to HDD. So I am never worried about this type of situation anyway. Just a though for the OP.

Any original BR Disc compressed video under 1920x1080 has quality loss unless you keep the original video. You can change the audio to a lesser quality and a lot of times fit the movie on a BD25. That will occur if you dump the menus, previews, some audio tracks etc. Sometimes it's a little bigger then the disc no matter what you do if you don't compress the video, Then again all this is in the eye of the beholder. I'm picky i keep original everything or sometimes convert the DTS-HD MA audio to flac because it sounds good and lossless.

I like having the original menus and all like the original, I just don't bother using blanks of any kind anymore.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

Well according to pete and some of the developers of CloneBD, blu-ray has a higher bitrate than really needed for the available detail. CloneBD starts by removing that excess bitrate to reduce size. That by itself already shrinks the filesize, then you have the option of removing unwanted audio, do that and the available filesize space for the same amount of video goes up reducing the need to touch the video even further, and then there's the issue of x264 just being good and what it's supposed to do. I've done plenty of full disc backups BD50>BD25 and on my 42" at least i see zero pixellation.

 

[DaGoatRancher]

Well according to pete and some of the developers of CloneBD, blu-ray has a higher bitrate than really needed for the available detail. CloneBD starts by removing that excess bitrate to reduce size. That by itself already shrinks the filesize, then you have the option of removing unwanted audio, do that and the available filesize space for the same amount of video goes up reducing the need to touch the video even further, and then there's the issue of x264 just being good and what it's supposed to do. I've done plenty of full disc backups BD50>BD25 and on my 42" at least i see zero pixellation.

Yes. This all makes sense. I get it. The OP mentioned keeping everything. So his options to shrink the filesize would not be the same. In his case BD50>BD25 conversion might be compressed a bit more. As I stated in my first reply. The OP would probably need to provide more details of his process and blank media to rule out that compression is or is not causing the video issue that he described.

 

[Ch3vr0n]

full disc copy IS keeping everything, it just compressed to BD25. Still cant see any visual artifacts on my screen

 

[Badnews]

No matter how you do it a decrease in bitrate harms quality, It maybe not be seen by the naked eye 10' away but try it at 10" and if a person doesn't see a difference they need a optomoligest.

You can't fit 2 gallons of water in a 1 gallon bottle unless you throw a gallon away or get a 2nd gallon bottle.


It is true some TV's upscale to make a video look better then it actually is but even that ppl don't understand. And no model 4K TV will upscale 1080p to 4K.


Putting a 1920x1080 video into a 4K TV that upscales does not upscale that video to 4K...It will upscale it a liitle more then 1080p but not 4K. And it never will because UHD's bitrate exceeds the bitrate of a BR disc by at min 3x. However to the naked eye at 10' some upscaled videos @ 1080p look just as good as UHD until you get inches away from the TV.



.98 cents isn't 1 dollar, But you'll get 75% that will agree it is because the 2 cents is low. If bitrate didn't matter then Hollywood would of stayed at 480p or 720p for that matter.

 

[Adbear]

Actually a decrease in bitrate doesn't always harm quality, it depends on the original bitrate, the quality of the original footage and by how much you are decreasing it.
There are a lot of Blu-rays where the bitrate is already over the level where it makes it transparent to the source material so decreasing the bitrate can have no effect on the quality

There are also disc in VC-1 and Mpeg2 where re-encoding them to H264 at a lower bitrate is still transparent to the original source

 

[Badnews]

Doesn't always that's about it and that even depends on the scenes of the movie also. Nothing wrong with it if a person likes it, Clone is what i do because space will never be a issue. If it takes me more then 15-25 mins to clone 100% that's a long time. Fast, quick and have every feature the original has with the same bitrate. No reencode with BD Rebuilder and a custom ini in 7 mins and original bitrate , MakeMKV in expert mode with your own custom xml just a plain killer all the way around while keeping everything except the menus and previews.

 

[Adbear]

Well you were the one who made sweeping statements such as

Any original BR Disc compressed video under 1920x1080 has quality loss unless you keep the original video

and

No matter how you do it a decrease in bitrate harms quality

neither of which are true, it depends on the original bitrate and compression format as well as how much you decrease it by on whether the final outcome is transparent to the original.

There's also no need to use either BD rebuilder or MakeMKV to make an untouched disc or MKV file, both of these can be done in CloneBD

 

[Badnews]

Well you were the one who made sweeping statements such as

and
neither of which are true, it depends on the original bitrate and compression format as well as how much you decrease it by on whether the final outcome is transparent to the original.

There's also no need to use either BD rebuilder or MakeMKV to make an untouched disc or MKV file, both of these can be done in CloneBD

Both can be done with CloneBD i assume, I don't use it. My statement stands i never said sweeping anything. Every movie is different. There are original Bluray that a DVD looks better. If the final size of a 48GB Bluray movie is 100% transparent to a 15-20GB FULL copy then Hollywood better take a look at technology or get into another business.



MakeMKV in my view there is nothing better at making quality MKV with everything and you don't need AnyDVD HD period to boot. And it's free but i paid.

BD Rebuilder in mins no reencode and free quality video in mins. Just understand the ini file commands


MakeMkv doesn't tell you what playlist, big deal...BD Rebuilder doesn't make a mistake at it

 

[Adbear]

Both of the statements I quoted are sweeping statements. You preclude the fact that disc can be over-padded on the original bitrate and that they can be compressed to remove that padding or by using a different codec at a lower bitrate and still have the same quality as the original.

Having spent 10 years encoding videos for Blu-ray for work I've seen this a lot on discs where encoders think that a higher bitrate means better quality when in fact they are just wasting space on the discs as the original footage doesn't have the detail in the first place. A lot of commercial Blu-rays are so poorly encoded that you're lucky if they have the detail for much more than 720p

 

[Ch3vr0n]

Let's just say you 2 agree to disagree. That said, yes CloneBD can do mkv as well. It's the combination sort off of CloneDVD and CloneDVD mobile combined. It can also do full clones in minutes and definitely is faster than bd-rb (which I still use myself for 3d backups), thanks to it's hardware ENCODING, bdrb only supports DEcoding. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and choice of which software they use for which purpose.

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[Badnews]

Both of the statements I quoted are sweeping statements. You preclude the fact that disc can be over-padded on the original bitrate and that they can be compressed to remove that padding or by using a different codec at a lower bitrate and still have the same quality as the original.

Having spent 10 years encoding videos for Blu-ray for work I've seen this a lot on discs where encoders think that a higher bitrate means better quality when in fact they are just wasting space on the discs as the original footage doesn't have the detail in the first place. A lot of commercial Blu-rays are so poorly encoded that you're lucky if they have the detail for much more than 720p

Discs can be over padded and most are to a point. But to make a 100% copy of a disc at a 1/4 of the size or a little more if that's what a person wants and likes it, So be it. There not seeing any difference from the original then they should do it. There is only ONE way to CLONE...Using less bitrate and file size isn't a clone.


As far as MakeMKV goes, Google who the top performer is in making full bitrate video MKV, The world spoke on that not me and free and decrypter free to boot. Best 50.00 i ever spent on a program in beta for years.


Nothing i wrote in this thread has anything to do with CloneBD, I don't use it and i leave that statement at that.