Curious thing happened on my way to Jupiter Ascending

[Crower]

Yesterday, after hitting 5 different Redbox kiosks, I found a BD copy of Jupiter Ascending and rented it. It had the same problem as my first Netflix disc (killing my player after the previews). My player is a Panasonic DMP-BDT100 3D machine and I had an older DMP-BD35 which I previously used so I thought about trying it and the movie worked without any problems.

That leads me to conclude that it's something in the disc format AND the BDT100 that don't get along. I haven't had any other issues with the BDT100 until this disc came along. In the next couple of weeks, I'm going to lay my hands on an original copy of Jupiter Ascending (non-rental) and see if that plays on the BDT100. Until then, I'm returning both the Netflix and Redbox discs (I have the log files of each if anyone needs to see those).

Redbox was very considerate and gave me 2 free rentals when I reported the bad disc (before I tried the BDT35). That;s better than Netflix who just sends a replacement (I won't go for another on this one though).

I have thought about getting PowerDVD a couple of times but then I read that it digs into your machine pretty heavily, so I backed off. I will look into WMP and VLC.

At least I got to watch Jupiter Ascending to make my buying decision (think I will wait until the price comes down a bit and go for the 3D package). It must be popular since all the Redbox kiosks were "out of stock"

Thank's again for all the input folks!

 

[Roycal]

Glad you narrowed your problem to the player. It's obviously a player problem and interesting that an older player of the same brand worked and a newer player did not work. If you're interested in getting the final solution you should push Panasonic for an answer . It's not likely you will have the problem with the retail version of this movie though.

 

[Crower]

Glad you narrowed your problem to the player. It's obviously a player problem and interesting that an older player of the same brand worked and a newer player did not work. If you're interested in getting the final solution you should push Panasonic for an answer . It's not likely you will have the problem with the retail version of this movie though.

I wrote Panasonic an e-mail about a week ago and have yet to hear back (not holding my breath).
Two days back, I decided to give their technical chat a try so I logged on and secured a
connection with Dwayne.

You might want to read the transcript of the conversation I had (attached as a jpeg) for a good
laugh.:bang: I have yet to call Panasonic technical support at the number Dwayne suggested, but I
might do that at some point to dispel my optimism in getting Panasonic to take interest.

I think (just for curiosity) I'm going to try the non-rental version this coming week and see what
happens (I’ll report back). In the meantime, I'll just chock this up to a single player/disc
coincidence since I've run a couple of BD features on the BDT100 since with no issues (and the
top menu button actually works for them).

Technically, I’m still wondering if it has anything to do with the Dolby Atmos track since that’s
the only thing known to be different about this release from all others I’ve played.

Anyway enjoy the chat session

 

[George++]

Crower, I see your "help session" was as informative and helpful as one I had recently with EA regarding a game. :bang::aiee:

 

[Roycal]

It looks like there was some confusion about the difference between a copy vs rental vs retail. Both rentals and retail disks are considered fully protected originals (even if the content is not the same). But the Panasonic guy should have known that. His suggestion that Netflix or Redbox may have sent out unauthorized copies is ludicrous.

You may be right that the newer player can't handle ATMOS, but hard to believe they wouldn't know that by now with a lot of complaints.
It sounds like the Pani chatter really only handles simple problems. Have you tried the tech support number? Maybe it's a problem with you're specific machine and not a model design or firmware problem. Tech support may be able to help you re-flash the firmware or try an earlier f/w version.
If you're going to hold a disk, hold the Netflix disk obviously otherwise the RB rental fees add up fast .

 

[Crower]

That's pretty much the assumption (that it could be my particular machine) I'm going with Roycal, and I'll see what happens with the original disc. If that has the same problem, I'll probably be on the phone with Panasonic to see what they have to say, but if it's ok, I'll move on until this problem occurs again (if it does). I should have that disc in a few more days so will see what happens. I'll definitely let you know how that goes.

 

[Roycal]

I should have that disc in a few more days so will see what happens. I'll definitely let you know how that goes.

Doubtful that you will see this problem with the retail version as it will probably have java menus.

There is something different about this disk as the menu has playlist 120 that points to the menu background and 7 audio streams but only plays 2 of them (using TMT3). AnyDVDHD throws an error in forced speedmenu mode but decodes it just fine if speedmenus is disabled. So there is some low level playlist obfuscation with this one.

It is still possible this problem is typical of your player, but I would think Panasonic, Netflix and Redbox would all be getting a flood of complaints though, given that this is a popular title. If you see the problem again and someone asks if it's an original or a copy, always tell them it's the original. Rentals are original versions too that are licensed by the studios to the rental distributors.

PS: It sounds like maybe Netflix is aware of the problem by suggesting trying an earlier player, but they are stuck with the same version Redbox received that was distributed by the originating copyright owner to the rental companies. If the volume of complaints is low, it might not be addressed. But the rental versions are still considered original disks and are supposed to play in a standalone compliant BD player.

 

[Crower]

This gets more interesting by the hour. I got the original Jupiter Ascending disc and popped it in. This particular disc plays the previews, flashes the Blu-Ray logo for about 2 seconds, shuts the machine down, restarts it and begins the disk with the Warner splash screen. The top menu button does the same thing beginning with the short duration Blu-Ray logo. Cussing Warner at this point - not the end of the story........

Still wondering if this has anything to do with Dolby Atmos, I tried the other Dolby Atmos disc I have - Gravity (which I should have done earlier but I didn’t think of it). Same result - am I on to something??? NO! I had played Gravity in this machine successfully some months back when I first got the disc set (but that was the 3D disc). I tried the 3D disc with the same results. Now I’m sure it’s my machine because Gravity 3D did play previously. I tried several more discs and none had the problem including another Warner disc Jack the Giant Slayer (Warner). Life of Pi worked fine so I tried that DVD - also fine.

Now I go back to Gravity 2D - now, the top menu background comes up but no menu selections show - very different behavior. If I try to make a selection (thinking maybe the “play” menu button will select), the machine goes through a shut down again.

Taking a rest, I tried running the last firmware update but the machine won’t take it. I think it knows that is what is already resident so it simply reads it and says “STOP”.

Coming back the present (so it seems), I put the 2D Jupiter Ascending disc in and now it too shows the menu background but no menu buttons. Hitting “select” on my remote shuts the machine down with a reboot as before.

I’m beginning to think that I have a laser carriage problem and the machine can’t access or read a portion of the disc. I’m also thinking that the problem discs (apparently certain Warner titles) are placing the menu functions on that portion that can’t be read but somehow reading those other discs shook something loose, allowing part of the information to be accessed.

Going from here, I think I’ll take a look inside my machine to see if there is any visible cause, and also I may contact Panasonic on the telephone “tech” line. Worst case, I’d like to send it in for repairs since it’s a pre-Cinavia machine and worked (works) great on discs that play. I don’t want to replace it with a Cinavia infected machine.

Hopefully, I can write more positive news to finish the story in coming days.........

 

[Roycal]

I think it's about 85% your player flaking out and 15% due to the unusual configuration of the disk's menu. This disk does the same thing your describing (menu but no menu buttons) on my Samsung BD-C5900 that has started flaking out too except that my player is starting to fail with most disks with multiple freeze frames, even movie only. This disk plays fine on my PC.
If you have a digital timer and time a "working" full length movie, you may find that your player is freezing sometimes. DVD's don't keep perfect time but BD's do.

After 3 failing BD players in about as many years, I finally bought a dedicated mini HTPC (total cost about 350USD after hardware and software add ons) and it works fine. If the BD drive goes out, I just have to buy another BD drive and Cinavia is not a problem with backups thanks to AnyDVDHD .

BTW, I just checked my version of Gravity and it has the same weird menu configuration that Jupiter Ascending has. Most likely that is what is triggering your problem with a marginally working player.

Interested in hearing back on any hardware fixes you might come up with as I have 3 BD players with blu laser failure problems, DVD's play fine but BD's don't .

PS: It's surprising to see this menu fluke thing on the retail version. Can you post the logfile from the retail disk? It's hard to believe any respected software engineer in their right mind would intentionally publish a disk that intentionally aggravates marginally working legal standalone players. It is a possible motivation to get people to buy new hardware though.

 

[Crower]

I'm not thinking it's a laser type problem because all other discs play and I haven't had any
freezing of the video due to drop-outs or failing laser type problems. My logic is that maybe due
to the Dolby Atmos requiring extra space on the disc, that may have required moving other data blocks (like the
menu info) to a normally unused area of the disc (and not intentionally, to cause players to fail,
since my player did mange Gravity quite well about 6 months back before this problem developed).

Panasonic CD players used to use a linear motor to position the laser assembly and it was
common that the guide rails would gunk up over time. The fix was to clean them and lubricate
them with a Mobil 1/IPA mix to coat them with a very thin layer of synthetic oil. I haven't looked
under the hood of a player for quite a while and I think most have moved to lead-screw
positioning though a few still use variations of linear motors. Lead-screws are also prone to
gunking and if the stepper motor can't turn the lead-screw, one standard practice calls for shutting down the machine to
prevent damage (which may be what's causing my machine to cycle off and then back on). By repeatedly trying to play the problem discs, it may have dislodged some of the gunk allowing the menu video to come up, but the menu itself is still in a "no-fly" zone for the laser.

At this point that's all theory until I get a chance to pop the cover and make some observations,
but when I do that, I'll let you know what I discover (if anything).

Here's the log-file from the original Jupiter Ascending disc. By the way, how does one read a
log-file? I wouldn't mind getting a little more familiar with them myself. I’ve tried looking at one
with notepad, but it’s just jibberish.

It might be a few days before I get to the player but I will report back on my findings.

 

[Crower]

Today, I popped the cover and looked inside the BDT100. It's laid out fairly straightforward with the deck assembly on the left, the processor board in the middle, and power supply on the right side. The deck connects to the processor board with a SATA cable, and two other connectors. By powering down the unit with the tray extended, and taking the cover off the deck, most of its workings could be seen. This unit uses a main guide rail, a second support rail and a worm drive with stepper motor.

In examining the deck, all seemed in order. The rail grease was still in good shape (and clean) and the head assembly had full travel. There was a stop that didn't quite line up with a slot but neither could have moved. If the stop and slot did line up, it would allow the laser carriage to move about 4mm closer to the center of the disc. Giving that Gravity played earlier and these couldn't change position, I ruled that out as a cause.

I re-attached power and both laser assemblies fired up while attempting to read a disc (no disc in tray) - NOTE: never do this an look into the assembly - eye damage is likely!

I concluded that all mechanical parts were working as they should - at least as far as I could determine.

I called the Panasonic Tech number that was provided earlier in the Panasonic chat session. I had to take the most likely choice from a number tree and then answer no to a couple of automated questions before being given the choice of hitting 0 for a human. Since my unit was out of warranty, I chose to pay $7 for a service connection.

The tech was polite and worked through his manual as I tried several discs, some with the problem and some without. At a couple of points he needed input from his supervisor but was patient and polite thoughout. Nothing new except he suggested a larger SD card (I had a 1GB in but went with his suggestion and put a 16GB one in). At that point his conclusion was that the machine was working ok but it was "incompatible" with these disks (I've identified three now and one is a pre-Dolby Atmos so I know Atmos isn't part of the problem - ALL are Warner discs). Well DUH! At this point, I could have come to the same conclusion. Anyway, the tech said that he would escalate the trouble report, and that I should hear back within 48 hours, so that was the best I could hope for under the circumstances.

I now have Jupiter Ascending, Gravity, and Doctor Zhivago (2010) which don't allow the top menu, and I'm back to black screen/reload disc when the top menu is attempted either by letting the previews run through, or by manual intervention. I haven't seen the menu page (minus the buttons) since that one time it came up both for Gravity and Jupiter Ascending. My other option is to get a BDT100 junker on the internet and try swapping the deck and/or boards, but I'll wait until I hear back from Panasonic. I'll see what develops by the beginning of next week and keep this story rolling.......

 

[Roycal]

Crower, that's great information. Do you have any photos or considered doing some youtube videos?

It's interesting that the Panasonic guy said there maybe a "compatibility problem" since this player is not that old and ATMOS goes back to 2012 or earlier.

My theory is that this disk structure stresses the player to maximum performance and fails with marginal players that are starting to perform below manufacturers specs. There is some obfuscation in the menu with this one. This is a screen shot of ClownBD showing multiple bogus subtitle and audio stream associated with playlist 120 which is the main menu.
From your logfile of the retail disk, it looks like the same menu structure except that real bonus features are added. It's not a java based menu as I had previously expected. It has same menu playlist 120 version as the rental version except for the extras.

 

[Crower]

I’m pretty sure the Panasonic tech was quoting from his playbook when he said that. It sounded like he wasn’t that knowledgeable himself and was just going through a troubleshooting tree, and when he got to the end, the only two choices were “too small an SD card” or “incompatible with those discs”, and since I ruled out the SD card, that’s what we ended up with. This is definitely a problem associated with Warner discs and nothing to do with Dolby Atmos. The Doctor Zhivago disc is from May of 2010 and I’m attaching the log file from it. Another weird thing is I went back to Jack the Giant Slayer since it worked, and was a Warner release. I popped it in and it had the same problem but I looked and I had grabbed the 3D disc. Switching back to the 2D version, I found that it did indeed work, so I’m attaching the log files from both of those. Whatever is precipitating the problem is NOT in the 2D version of Jack the Giant Slayer.

I was thinking something in the firmware which addresses Warner’s unique top menu style may have become corrupted and reflashing the ROM as you suggested may be a potential cure - but see below.

UPDATE: Friday - Panasonic called back. I was on the line with this tech for about 30 minutes (VOIP on their end, and the speech quality wasn’t that good). He read the previous report and then I had to re-explain it all again several times (like he didn’t hear me well). This tech didn’t seem as savy as their lower level tech. Again, nothing major but he did explain that a “reset” is different from the menu “restore to factory settings” reset, so we went through that (power off-red/yellow/ok buttons until 00 RET shows up, then right arrow to 08 FIN, and hold ok until machine cycles off again). After that I had to set the language, aspect ratio, and network preferences when the machine powered up the first time. I had hopes, but same results as before. At the end, he attempted to chalk it up to studios adding more and more protective measures and that my machine was subject to those which contributed to this problem, but I reminded him that Gravity player ok some months back (as well as the fact that my older machine can play them).

This tech said a firmware re-flash is impossible and that the machine is “starting to fail”. He was going to make arrangements for a repair quote from their McCallen, TX shop, but stated they don’t repair - they just replace. I asked if it would be the same model and he said “probably not - probably would be a BDT220”, so I wasn’t happy about the potential loss of a Cinavia free unit. I told him to pass those concerns along to McCallen and see if replacement with a BDT100 was possible, and left it at that. Panasonic is supposed to be back in touch in a day or so with the estimate which I assume will be much more than the machine is worth. If that’s the case, I’m back to plan B - already have a used BDT110, and a junk BDT100 on the way ($75 total) so I’ll try some board swapping to see if I can isolate the problem. (A BDT100 service manual was available for $5 on the web).

I’m not a YouTube person but I took some photos when I had the cover off. I'm having a little trouble attaching all these (probably some size limit so will try another post with them). The worm drive was difficult to image (under a partition) so it doesn’t show in any of the photos, but these photos give some idea of what the unit looks like inside. The disc deck and processor board are available on-line for about $400 and $150 respectively (a bit more than a new machine), but I’m not willing to shell out that much, especially if I’m not sure which is at fault. So it looks like this story is winding down to self-repair with used parts, or get a new player (or just skip Warner titles). I’ll write the last pages as they develop.

 

[Crower]

Here are the photos. Guess I have to upload one-at-a-time. If you're interested in any one at a higher resolution, let me know.

 

[ddjmagic]

The things one does to try and stay Cinavia free! Interested to see how it turns out.

Just to let you know (if you don't already) that the 120/220/320 can all be made Cinavia/Region free with CFW.
Couple of sources for the firmware (between $50-$100). PM me if interested and I will send you the info

 

[Crower]

Thanks for that ddjmagic - I might take you up on your offer. Actually, I have a brand new BDT220 sitting on a shelf which I bought before learning about Cinavia. It's at my vacation residence where I use some of my back-ups but I'll wait until I see how this comes out since I have a BDT100 there as well (which still works for all discs as far as I know) - will definitely keep you in mind!

 

[Crower]

Well folks, here it is about 11:00 PM my time and I’m writing what I hope is the final chapter in my tale of woe for my Panasonic BD100 Blu-Ray player. Tonight, it caught on fire and burned my house down, so now I can get a new player................ (no, not really).

I’m able to write a happy ending (knock on wood) to the story. That chapter starts like this. A couple of days back, I played a CD on my machine (no problems, as expected). It sat there until tonight when I got a copy of Ex Machina via Netflix, and I loaded it up for the “home theater experience”. I didn’t expect problems with Ex Machina since it wasn’t one of those Warner titles and indeed, it played to completion without a single burp.

I was still of the feeling that somewhere along the way, software or firmware had become corrupted since the problem always took place at the point where the top menu was supposed to load and only a software glitch would do that. Panasonic had said the last rites for my machine (I still haven’t heard from their repair facility regarding the “estimate” to swap out my machine for a refurbished unit).

After I finished Ex Machina, I thought I’d check one more Warner title, The Matrix, just to see how far back this issue went. Unfortunately, I found that The Matrix didn’t have a top menu and started right with the opening of the movie so just for the heck of it, I thought I’d throw Doctor Zhivago in again to rub some more salt in my wounds. To my surprise (not totally - read on), it loaded and went to the main menu without any trouble. Eager to see if I was dreaming, I popped in Jupiter Ascending and low-and-behold, after skipping the previews (which I now knew by heart and then some), up came the main menu, and I could play the feature with no problems.
Doctor, heal thyself, hallelujah!!!

I said I wasn’t totally surprised, because while I was playing the CD, I vaguely remembered a long time ago, some kind of problem (not exactly what it was), and playing a CD fixed it. I discounted that until tonight but apparently either that or Ex Machina cleared the problem. I’ll test a few more Warner titles tomorrow, but if you don’t hear from me, you’ll know I’m one happy camper and my Cinavia free player is working like a champ again.

Thanks for all the support Roycal and others. This was really an unusual problem, but now that it’s fixed, I’m happy as a lark, and I have some replacement gear in the mail to boot. Booo on Panasonic whose only answer after three separate tech sessions was that my machine “is starting to fail”. I’ll keep my BDT100 player going until their Cinavia plagued machines turn to dust!
Never give up, never surrender!:rock:

 

[Roycal]

Glad to hear your problem may be resolved. You are right that these Warner disks have a common menu structure that seems to have aggravated your problem.
All of the disks you complained about have the same Warner released non-java based 120 playlist menu version. The fact that these disks worked before and not later is the first sign that the player is starting to fail. Intermittency is also a sign of a failing drive.

BTW, you may have just "fixed" your problem by disassembling and re-assembly. It would be nice to know exactly what you did .

 

[Crower]

Glad to hear your problem may be resolved. You are right that these Warner disks have a common menu structure that seems to have aggravated your problem.
All of the disks you complained about have the same Warner released non-java based 120 playlist menu version. The fact that these disks worked before and not later is the first sign that the player is starting to fail. Intermittency is also a sign of a failing drive.

BTW, you may have just "fixed" your problem by disassembling and re-assembly. It would be nice to know exactly what you did .

I don't think the player is failing, rather this is some kind of software bug/disc interaction that took place. I know that the machine has a certain amount of memory because if title isn't finished and that disc is reinserted before playing another (even if the power has been disconnected), the machine will ask if I want to continue playing from where I left off so it has placed some data into a non-volatile memory. I might assume that a certain amount of operating code could be handled the same way and if that was retained, the same problem would surface when these particular discs were used. Admittedly, it could be machine failure but my gut says otherwise.

I don't think the disassembly/reassembly was responsible since I tried several discs after that (and did the factory reset with Panasonic), and the problem persisted. I know it was still there just prior to playing the CD. Nothing intermittent either. The problem has been consistent and the same nature (bringing up the main menu). Ex Machina played great with no drop-outs, the menu loaded fine, and I used FF and REV several times without any noticeable problems.

I'll be careful to note the conditions if this problem recurs and if the "play the CD" approach doesn't fix it, I'll have some components (from the used BDT100) to swap out so I can isolate the problem a bit more.

What interests me though is that those particular discs which you analyzed are the triggering mechanism for whatever was taking place. Did you check the Jack the Giant Slayer 2D versus 3D disc logs since only the 3D triggered the fault and the 2D version played ok?

As a side note, the Panasonic repair center called this morning with a $102 quote for a machine swap and stated it wouldn't be a BDT100 that I'd get back. The person I talked to seemed sad when I told him the problem had resolved itself but thats life (actually the quote is a lower than I expected but I can still get a brand new BDT220 for less than $102).

 

[Roycal]

What interests me though is that those particular discs which you analyzed are the triggering mechanism for whatever was taking place. Did you check the Jack the Giant Slayer 2D versus 3D disc logs since only the 3D triggered the fault and the 2D version played ok?

As a side note, the Panasonic repair center called this morning with a $102 quote for a machine swap and stated it wouldn't be a BDT100 that I'd get back. The person I talked to seemed sad when I told him the problem had resolved itself but thats life (actually the quote is a lower than I expected but I can still get a brand new BDT220 for less than $102).

I'm not an expert on AnyDVDHD logfiles but your log files show the 3D version also is not a java menu version. I.E. no files the Java folder. And your 3D version does not have that common 120.mpls playlist file associated with the menu with other disks you are having problems with. So it is different in that respect.

All the other disks you are having problems with have the same 120.mpls playlist that starts the menu which is where you are seeing the failure. That memory thing with "start from last.." is due to that everything works up until this weird 120.mpls based menu loads.

It still looks like a marginal performance problem with your player with a marginally compliant disk format. Also, if you are having problem with the 3D version versus the 2D version presents a whole other possible source of problems besides just the disk.