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Cinavia, Feb, 1, 2012 and forwards

Damn, that means slysoft better get to work (if they arent already) on cracking that stuff. So i can remove it from my backups that currently are infect in the event that my player MIGHT stop working one day and i have to get a new infected player. Oh and i hope that mandatory or not, not all manufacturers will jump on the bandwagon on 1/2/12
 
First Cinavia, then the Sopa crap.

Man, the movie studios are getting to the point where I think that they'll irritate me enough to not buy their stuff, and I'll just read books instead!!

If all of this goes through, I hope that Hollywood enjoys seeing all of their profits go down the drain, because I won't support them blocking my right to back up media that I legally own.
 
Things are not looking good. I guess back to stone age before movie were available.
 
Ch3vr0n said:
Damn, that means slysoft better get to work (if they arent already) on cracking that stuff. So i can remove it from my backups that currently are infect in the event that my player MIGHT stop working one day and i have to get a new infected player. Oh and i hope that mandatory or not, not all manufacturers will jump on the bandwagon on 1/2/12
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I am not sure since Verance is offering license fee waivers to manufacturers of players that implement Cinavia in accordance with Verance’s preferred screening specifications. Manufacturers may want to do it to save some money. Especially if this limited time offer.

I wonder after this date will all studios start adding Cinavia to their release or not. Logically I think they would since they will know almost all players are cinavia supported know.
 
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fast eddie said:
What bothers me is ALL of your existing Blu-ray back-ups won't play on a new Cinavia infected player due to the removal of the AACS on the back-ups. The new Cinavia infected Blu-ray players require the AACS to be intact in order not to trip the Cinavia infection.

BDMV-REC might be a short work around, but the software companies really need to GET GOING on a good method of the removal of the Cinavia infection or they are going to be loosing a lot of business and money. Ripping a Blu-ray disk could become useless as we do it today with the AACS removed.

It looks like a good stockpile of non-cinavia Blu-ray players will be a must, and the cost of a non-cinavia Blu-ray player will be going thru the roof and become liquid gold.

I have stockpiled four non-cinavia players. Come on Slysoft lets get this watermark removed. :mad:

I know other DVD fans that have hundreds and thousands of back-up disks that may become useless. :(
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I don't think so other than PS3 and some selected player, none support BDMV-REC based media. As such this is not really solution at all.
 
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Just a quick question would software player would be affected. Such as Arcsoft TMT, cyberlink powerdvd and Corel windvd.
 
Yes, Provided the title is not protected by BD+ as well. If it is all the effort of hack and changing firmware or replace Rom will go useless.

Due to the way BD+ works. The only option I can think of is to remove AACS and BD+ and then play on hacked player.
 
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I think software will be affected with this. Even if it limited Arcsoft, Cyberlink and Corel. They are considered to be proper blu-ray player as such the have to comply by AACS policy. If they don't they will likely to loose there license to use blu-ray specs.

It doesn't matter if they are software or hardware based.
 
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Maybe Jason from Arcsoft might have some information about this. It's worth a try to ask him instead?
 
Roycal said:
Cinavia is still crackable but it's going to be very hard. The way I see it, you will need a smart program that scans the entire audio streams, is able to recognize and create a fingerprint of the watermarks and re-encode the audio streams and cancel out the watermarks. Adding the fingerprints 180 degrees out of phase with the originals is one way to cancel out the watermarks.

The idea is simple, the implemenatation is very difficult.

It means re-encoding all the audio streams and remuxing them, which could take hours for each rip to isolate the watermark and cancel it out.
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Theroy is generally easier than implemenatation. With that being said how program will know what to look far. One way or another I think it will cat and mouse game just like virus vs antivirus programs.
 
Many hardware manufacturers don't encrypt their firmware. A before and after Cinavia firmware might shed some light.
 
I guess this begs the question... what happens if someone makes a Blu-Ray player in March 2012 and it doesn't detect Cinavia? Who sues them?
 
This isn't really a surprise

  1. I'ts not like we weren't aware that this was the plan. Cinavia was in a trial run and is now moving into the full implementation phase.
  2. Cinavia is basically offering the license to use it's technology for free to the player manufacturers if they are willing to implement it according to Verance's guidelines. It remains to be seen just how restrictive these "guidelines" are and whether some players will just wait to be sued bedore implementing Cinavia.
  3. Because the Cinavia signal is mastered with the sound itself, cancelling out the Cinavia signal is like cancelling out the sound itself. There are multiple threads on here discussing the merits of doing this, but just suffice it to say that it's not really a good idea. Plus, you need a decoder implemented in your solution to even begin to do something like that. Since DTS Master has no free market decoder, well.......
  4. There are already players on the market that detect Cinavia and as of yet, their firmware has not been hacked. Not to say it will never be as i do think reverse engineering the firmware will be a part of defeating Cinavia, but hardware manufacuturers are getting smarter about detecting hacked firmware on thier players and it's just getting too dangerous to run a player on hacked firmware (bricked players, blacklisted players, etc).
  5. HTPCs in my opinion, provide the best solution outside of defeating Cinavia, to the user to play back high definition rips. Software players will get better, there are a number of them. And i'm guessing that the incentive to get better developers into the fray is growing.

So in short, while Cinavia is an issue, as it does hinder playback of blu-ray rips and i'm sure there will always be some unintended consequences for the "normal" consumer, it's not the end of the world.

If you're backing up Blurays, you're probably savy enough to put together a software solution to be able to play those backups.
 
The piece of the puzzle that's really missing is what movie studios will actually use cinavia on their discs. So far that's fairly limited. We have what, 35 some odd discs that contain it at the moment? Most of which are sony or warner bros. I know the studios have all signed on to cinavia but it hasn't been widely adopted yet. Maybe once all the players support it they'll start adding it but one would think all the studios would have put out their own test disc by now. So we'll have to wait and see how that plays out.

Still, the best defense is a playback solution that can't be forced to adopt detection. Commercial software players like tmt and pdvd are out. Mpc-hc + lav filters + madvr + anydvd makes a compelling case.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
 
I'm keeping my eye on Oppo, as I know they have always been very strongly opposed to Cinavia, not to mention the great players they make.
 
Of all the player mfg's out there, Oppo does seem to be rather resistant to adding Cinavia detection. That's a good thing cause it means they care more about their customers (and their bottom line, obviously) than they do about the wishes of the AACSLA. That being said, they are licensed, so, they WILL have to comply at some point. But I rather doubt they'll retrofit existing players with Cinavia. They might, and I wouldn't buy one on my gut feeling that they won't ;), but, it's unlikely.
 
Roycal said:
I agree. My take is that the reason it hasn't been hacked yet is because there is not really enough motivation yet. But you can bet that people are working on it. I'm tempted to turn it into a side hobby myself. But I would need to invest in some hardware that I don't otherwise need right now.
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I wouldn't bother. People seem to underestimate what it takes to deal with Cinavia. It will require a serious effort from the "experts" who are motivated by funding. ;) IOW, the ones who get paid to do this stuff. I've seen enough about Cinavia to know it's not going to be solved by simple tricks and hacks. It needs a SERIOUS reverse engineering effort. What people aren't understanding is that it's not just a simple signal. It adapts. Nasty little protection.
 
This wouldn't even be a thought in anyone's mind had DVD HD won the battle. Everyone was concerned about the price if Blu-ray won, not this.
 
SlySoft was HIGHLY promoting HD DVD back in those days. It's what I started with, as well, and was rooting for. But, unfortunately, blu-ray won due to big payoffs by Sony. And now we have all this crappy DRM.
 
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