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Blocked BD copy playback (Cinavia)

skypx

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Hey guys, not sure if anyone is aware of this but Cinavia DRM protection will allow the BD to be backed up, however; it will mute the audio after about 20 minutes of playback. It's actually kind of freaky, for sure The Losers is protected and I think (not sure) Repo Men. Good luck.
 
A friend of mine made a backup of The Losers, played it via PS3, and after 20 minutes the audio was muted. A message was displayed stating content is protected with Cinavia. Just thought I would give the SlySoft team a heads up.
 
A friend of mine made a backup of The Losers, played it via PS3, and after 20 minutes the audio was muted. A message was displayed stating content is protected with Cinavia. Just thought I would give the SlySoft team a heads up.

That is known and not so much of a problem.
I'm quite confident that before this type of protection spreads widely, our SlyPlayer is ready and that will play that kind of content.
Or any other player that doesn't have to follow the blu-ray rules - after all, it requires the player identify the protection and actively mute the sound, it's not implicit.
 
Cool! Thanks Peer. :) :rock:
 
Can this protection be present on domestic BD disks?

I understood this was an audio watermark which was included for example on cinema media, to prevent cinema camcorder or other copying / playback of 'professional' media on compliant domestic devices.

I can't see how any BD intended for domestic use could contain this, nor can I see how a copy could have this watermark unless the original did too.

Does the OP have access to some 'professional-only' BD release which is not available to the public? Do such 'professional-only' BDs exist?

--
SC
 
That is known and not so much of a problem.
I'm quite confident that before this type of protection spreads widely, our SlyPlayer is ready and that will play that kind of content.
Or any other player that doesn't have to follow the blu-ray rules - after all, it requires the player identify the protection and actively mute the sound, it's not implicit.

Does this mean that the only way to watch such a disc is with SlyPlayer or with some specific models of hardware players? In other words, from what you are saying, it makes it sound like certain hardware players will not be able to play a disc backed up by AnyDVD when it is protected by Cinavia. (???)
 
I understood this was an audio watermark which was included for example on cinema media, to prevent cinema camcorder or other copying / playback of 'professional' media on compliant domestic devices.

I can't see how any BD intended for domestic use could contain this, nor can I see how a copy could have this watermark unless the original did too.

Does the OP have access to some 'professional-only' BD release which is not available to the public? Do such 'professional-only' BDs exist?

--
SC
That's how Cinavia describes its technology on its website. To block copies without blocking originals, the Cinavia code would have to be inserted during the copying process; I don't see how that's possible.

Unless it's somehow tied to the BD-ROM Mark (the uncopyable signature on every pressed BD), there's no way this technology could be used on pressed BDs for the consumer market. And if it were tied to the BD-ROM Mark, we'd know instantly as any ORIGINAL with such protection couldn't be played back on any PC with AnyDVD HD active, since AnyDVD HD presents the disc to Windows as a BD-R, which shouldn't have a BD-ROM Mark. (Of course, SlyPlayer would get around that; CloneBD could also strip Cinavia codes during the remuxing process.)

I suspect the OP's friend had either (a) a pre-release BD intended for professionals that was Cinavia-protected to prevent playback by the general public, or (b) an illegally-produced copy (i.e., camcorded).
 
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Does this mean that the only way to watch such a disc is with SlyPlayer or with some specific models of hardware players? In other words, from what you are saying, it makes it sound like certain hardware players will not be able to play a disc backed up by AnyDVD when it is protected by Cinavia. (???)

Yes, that's what it means - unless we can remove that stuff from the disc, but I'm not going to speculate on the feasability of that now.

That's how Cinavia describes its technology on its website. To block copies without blocking originals, the Cinavia code would have to be inserted during the copying process; I don't see how that's possible.

No, the "code" is on the original as well - the players will only play along as long as the disc is fully AACS protected. It's as simple as that.
 
That's how Cinavia describes its technology on its website. To block copies without blocking originals, the Cinavia code would have to be inserted during the copying process; I don't see how that's possible.

Unless it's somehow tied to the BD-ROM Mark (the uncopyable signature on every pressed BD), there's no way this technology could be used on pressed BDs for the consumer market. And if it were tied to the BD-ROM Mark, we'd know instantly as any ORIGINAL with such protection couldn't be played back on any PC with AnyDVD HD active, since AnyDVD HD presents the disc to Windows as a BD-R, which shouldn't have a BD-ROM Mark. (Of course, SlyPlayer would get around that; CloneBD could also strip Cinavia codes during the remuxing process.)

I suspect the OP's friend had either (a) a pre-release BD intended for professionals that was Cinavia-protected to prevent playback by the general public, or (b) an illegally-produced copy (i.e., camcorded).

Well, I'm sorry to say the mystery of Cinavia continues. When the backup was played back on a PS3 attached to a receiver (HDMI DD 5.1), the audio was muted after 20 minutes (did not matter if it was FF or waited the entire time), but when played back via PS3 attached to a TV (via HDMI stereo), the sound was not muted for the entire film.

I am sorry if it seems as if I am being cryptic, but I don't have any additional information to share, not because I don't want to share the information, but simply because I am completely baffled by their protection. The only fact I've been able to gather so far is, it is in The Losers and Repo Men, and no, I am not sure what region the original disc is from. Sorry. :confused:
 
Yes, that's what it means - unless we can remove that stuff from the disc, but I'm not going to speculate on the feasability of that now.



No, the "code" is on the original as well - the players will only play along as long as the disc is fully AACS protected. It's as simple as that.

Well than that seals it then. If Blu-Ray discs employ this technology, we're screwed, and I am sure eventually all discs will have it, seeing as to how all other forms of BD protection have been defeated.
 
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Well than that seals it then. If Blu-Ray discs employ this technology, we're f*****, and I am sure eventually all discs will have it, seeing as to how all other forms of BD protection have been defeated.
That's what they said about AACS and BD+, I'm sure if it becomes an issue someone will work out how to remove it
 
Well than that seals it then. If Blu-Ray discs employ this technology, we're ******, and I am sure eventually all discs will have it, seeing as to how all other forms of BD protection have been defeated.

Do I really have to warn you about language? :policeman:
 
Really? Holy cow, I didn't realize this. I can't remember the last time I was on a "no swearing" forum. :(

It falls under the scope of a few of the forum rules. We do have people of all ages reading the forums. :)

Anyway, this looks really bad. http://www.avforums.com/forums/ps3/1249332-cinavia-drm-ps3s-other-blu-ray-players.html

Apparently they are making Cinavia audio signal recognition part of the AACS agreement, which means that EVERY playback device will have to employ it. :(

It sounds annoying and problematic, yes. I'm not, however, going to let it bother me... yet. I'll be interested in Peers' opinions once he's had more time to really look at things.
 
According to the site linked to it's only shown up on a DVD screener
 
According to the site linked to it's only shown up on a DVD screener

That was posted in May. Scroll down and check the last post in the thread from July, a user says the Blu-Ray release has it.
 
http://www.verance.com/AdminSavR/news/news_item.php?news_id=42

AACS Issues Final Agreements, Enabling Commercial Deployment of Cinavia in Blu-ray Disc Players

June 5, 2009
SAN DIEGO, CA – AACS LA, LLC today issued final technical specifications and license agreements for their content protection solution for the Blu-ray Disc format, enabling consumer electronics manufacturers and computer software vendors to immediately begin including Verance’s Cinavia technology in Blu-ray Disc players. Cinavia employs Verance’s audio watermark technology to extend the existing content security architecture for Blu-ray Disc to protect against the use of unauthorized copies of commercial movies, such as those which originated from in-theater camcording or “ripped” DVDs.

The completion of the AACS architecture has been anticipated since early 2006, when interim agreements were released to facilitate the initial launch of next-generation optical media formats for high-definition home entertainment. In addition to requiring Cinavia technology, AACS’s final architecture also includes the capability for consumers to make copies of content from Blu-ray Disc media to other devices and media, such as personal computers, portable video players, and other recordable video formats. AACS LA is a cross-industry consortium, whose membership includes IBM, Intel, Microsoft, Panasonic, Sony, Toshiba, The Walt Disney Company, and Warner Bros. Studios.

“Cinavia’s persistent watermark protects against piracy across different distribution channels, devices and copy generations,” explains Nil Shah, chief executive of Verance. “This enables new avenues for consumers to view movies and shows on more devices, obtain content from new media distribution channels, and make authorized copies, while curbing the abuse that undermines the growth of these emerging entertainment markets.”

Manufacturers of Blu-ray Disc players and components began integrating the Cinavia technology into their designs in 2007, and certified Cinavia components are now available from Verance and numerous third-party vendors. Information on components available from Verance are available on the company’s web site (www.verance.com/products/av_fd_program.php) as is a list of companies licensed to provide components integrating Cinavia (www.verance.com/partners/customers.php). Blu-ray Disc players including the technology are expected to begin appearing in the marketplace in the second half of 2009.

Cinavia has been widely embraced among the film industry, with Sony Pictures, 20th Century Fox, Universal Studios, and Warner Bros. Entertainment all having licensed the technology for use in their releases.

More information on Cinavia and a form to submit licensing requests are available at www.verance.com.
 
I did a bit of research on Cinavia:

It seems that CAM versions of Wolfman & Losers trigger a Message 1 on PS3.
Bdrip version of Losers trigger a Message 3 on PS3.

So far no player that I tested on, other than PS3, know about Cinavia.
 
No, the "code" is on the original as well - the players will only play along as long as the disc is fully AACS protected. It's as simple as that.
I think that's actually what I was saying--the code has to be on the original as well as the copy, since no BD copier is gonna cooperate with Cinavia. :D Therefore, for Cinavia to protect only copies it has to work in conjunction with another component of BD copy protection. (I said BD-ROM Mark; you said AACS--same concept.)

Assuming Cinavia works with AACS, since AnyDVD HD breaks AACS, Cinavia (edit: if found in PC software players) would make even original discs unplayable on PCs running AnyDVD HD. Thus, if Cinavia were employed widely, we'd know about it almost as quickly as Avatar's BD+ update. ;)
 
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