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Maybe you should not upgrade to Vista

Xbox Consoles are able to attach keyboard / Mouse see link

Most console gamers aren't using them, so the console developers aren't really developing console games with keyboard/mouse
in mind (as such, the controls for those devices aren't always implemented well--even after remapping). And regardless, it's not nearly the same as being able to use a Logitech G15 keyboard paired with a Razer Deathadder mouse.

DirectX 10 is for people wanting the newest stuff and newest games developed especially for new Hardware.

Which PC gamers do want . . .


Have You noticed the conspiracy with M$ and game developers.. > Buy it and don't complain..

I agree with you completely here. I am pretty angry about it. I'm holding off switching to Vista on my gaming rig until a game comes out
that warrants me switching to directx 10.
 
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Do you want to have all the eye candy of Vista and still use Windows XP? Well in this case" you can have your cake and eat it too." Do a " Google search " on "Vista Transformation Pack 6.0 Final " I am am by no means endorsing this program or will I take any responsiblity for it, but it is freeware and when installed in safe mode, ( create a restore point also) it will give you all the " eye candy of Vista and your XP OS will still be completely intact. This is my personal opinion not that of Slysoft or any other entitiy.:clap:

Has anyone else tried this? It looks pretty good. I'm downloading right now but I'm apprehensive about installing it. Has it slowed anyone's computers down? Am I able to uninstall it? Any feedback is appreciated.
 
Has anyone else tried this? It looks pretty good. I'm downloading right now but I'm apprehensive about installing it. Has it slowed anyone's computers down? Am I able to uninstall it? Any feedback is appreciated.
It has not slowed down my computer in anyway. Install it in Safe Mode.:agree: And remember to create a restore point.:agree:
 
I have a few issues with this Vista\DX10 thing. As of the last inquiry of DX 10, the only video card fully supporting it is the newest NVidia card, ATI does not have full support on their hardware for it yet, and NVidia's older cards do not either. The DRM thing we are going to have to live with until someone with enough $ gets the balls to fight hollywood and Microsuck. They have already gone beyond legal and civil rights with their DRM software among many things. Microsoft does not allow for any type of actual security or privacy on their software (Any of it, not just windows), and actualy builds ways into it so their spys (Govt also) can access anything on your computer very easily and puts it right in the EULA that they can do so, and the windows defender makes it even worse. Microsoft has taken more of your privacy rights away from you than the Federal Government has (and neither one should have gone as far as they have, but the people let them, consent by silence and non-action). As a 100% rule of thumb for the last 6 years, anything you install on your computer that is new from Microsoft takes away your privacy just a little bit more, and allows easier access into your "Personal" computer by anyone that wants in. This first started with the remote services and remote desktop features in XP, do you think anyone actualy uses this for what it was advertised for? And even better, do you think it is advertised as what it was designed for? If you uncheck the box to allow these to run, and check your services, why are they still running? Another tool Microsoft uses for spying is ActiveX, anything ActiveX is a privacy killer. It is MADE TO REMOTELY STORE INFORMATION ABOUT YOU ON A REMOTE SERVER wherever the software makers want, that is what ActiveX is, and that is literaly how it can be defined. How do you think you can log into any Yahoo service and your information be right there, including records of what you accessed from the other PC. Try it with Yahoo videos if you would like to test this. Its like a SuperCookie on an internet server you can't delete (Yahoo also will not delete your account info if you ask them to either, the government will not let them). ActiveX is legal spyware, explain that to me. Anyway, enough of the ranting for now. This is all true by the way, I can keep going for days because this does not even scratch the surface of how Microsoft has taken every bit of privacy away. You have three viable options (would be four if ANYONE could beat Microsoft in court), 1. Use a Linux based PC to access the Internet. 2. If possible, use Windows 98 or XP SP1 with NO UPDATES. 3. Lie about your personal information on ALL registrations (or don't register anything), and don't keep any personaly identifiable information on your PC, dont even enter it without saving (its still there), and keep NO incriminating evidence (don't do ANYTHING illegal) on your PC. These are the only 3 ways you are safe. Have a PC for games and such with no personal info on it, and a Linux PC (or Mcintosh) for your personal records and use. And as far as Movies or Music, the only way to watch/listen/other is XP SP1 w/o updates (or internet access for other) and Good Hardware and Software if you are looking for best quality (Or McIntosh is actualy the best at this).

One other point, I ALWAYS disable automatic updates, firewall, etc. before I even allow my computer to access the net after a reinstall, and NEVER turn it back on.

I am sorry, but if someone wants something on your computer, they will get it, so don't burden yourself thinking you can actualy stop them.

"Sometimes I wonder what Microsoft means by more secure, their customers personal security, the governments homeland security, or Hollywoods Copyrite security. My guess would be the latter 2."
 
One other point, I ALWAYS disable automatic updates, firewall, etc. before I even allow my computer to access the net after a reinstall, and NEVER turn it back on.

I am sorry, but if someone wants something on your computer, they will get it, so don't burden yourself thinking you can actualy stop them.

I whole heartedly agree with you about disabling MS Updates.
Windows Firewall on the other hand, is a very efficient tool.
 
...to get rid of the 3:2 pulldown judder and have smooth 48/72 Hz playback (or to reverse PAL Speedup for the Australians and Europeans) you need ReClock.
ReClock won't run on Vista. This is a serious showstopper if you are serious about movie watching.

How about the numerous rumors that Vista has it's own way of dealing with the problems reclock is used for, i.e. letting the videostream dictate the timing and having the audio follow the videostream.

@James: Is there any truth to that? The EVR (extended video renderer) under Vista is supposed to take over the job of reclock. Care to comment? Thanks!
 
It's not that the games won't work in XP. It's that they won't look as good, because XP doesn't support directX 10.
That depends on the developer of the game, some games may run on Vista or XP and take advantage of whats available to them. But others like Halo 2 will only run on Vista.
 
That depends on the developer of the game, some games may run on Vista or XP and take advantage of whats available to them. But others like Halo 2 will only run on Vista.

I'm talking specifically about the games that are being developed to take advantage of directx 10.
 
About DX10 and Vista

Saw this posted elsewhere by a guy I know whos a game dev in the graphics area. He still hates Vista - but wants to clear up a misconception.

_________________________________________________________

I'm no Vista fan-boy. I have no intention of installing it anytime soon.
I would like to shoot down the tired argument of DX10 being on Vista
only to sell systems, though.

DX10 is not possible on XP, 2000 or NT. When Microsoft made the decision
to put the Windows rendering pipeline inside of the kernel in NT4 for
performance reasons they set themselves down a path that they couldn't
easily get off. It's frickin' dangerous to have a video subsystem inside
of kernel space. If a video driver horks the whole system goes down. All
of those bluescreens you saw in NT 4, 2000, and (to a lesser degree)
weren't Windows problems. They were problematic video drivers that
barfed all over the kernel and destroyed the stability of the running
machine.

While all of that was going on Microsoft was doing what they normally
do. They started with a lackluster rendering technology, DirectX and
incrementally made it better and better. Since they weren't tied to an
industry consortium like the OpenGL ARB they didn't have to work by
committee. Instead they could listen to developers and push DirectX
quickly and efficiently. DXs 1, & 2 sucked. 3 sucked less. 4,5,6 were
better but forgetable. 7, 8, and 9 shined. The success of 9 was a double
edged sword though, because of the face that the entire rendering system
ended up going through kernel space. The things Microsoft wanted to do,
geometry shaders, unified shader pipelines, Managed DirectX performance
increases, 10 bit rendering, etc... were going to put a huge strain on
an already jerry-rigged graphic system in Windows. At the same time
Microsoft determined that GDI/GDI+ was a dead end for future Windows
window rendering. In Windows there is no concept of a window manager.
Each window manages itself. It's up to applications to detect when their
window has become dirty and redraw it. This system is slow, prone to
mistakes (like when you move a window and a nonresponsive app under it
doesn't update so it's like you're painting with the window you are
dragging), and doesn't allow for true window compositing. All of these
dead ends, kernel space, DX10 features that couldn't be put into kernel
space, and GDI/GDI+ make Microsoft realize that it was time to move the
graphics system back out of the kernel.

The rendering pipeline in Vista runs entirely outside of the kernel. An
errant video driver won't bring down the system. Since Microsoft started
over from scratch they corrected all of the problems of GDI/GDI+, made
it possible for DX10 to add all of the future rendering tech the game
devs were asking for, put in true window managing/compositing, and were
even able to rewrite DX 9.0c (called 9.0v in Vista) to work outside of
the kernel.

For rendering/graphics geeks like me Vista is Windows as it should be.
The massive changes in the rendering system aren't readily apparent,
though, as Microsoft did an admirable job of keeping the old system
running decently for as long as they did. In the end though, there was
no way that Microsoft was going to move the tech forward with the given
system.
-Quarters
 
Hey, thanks for posting that! I found it very interesting. Do you have a link to the source?

I'm still annoyed that I'm going to have to eventually change my gaming rig to Vista, but oh well . . .

I'm going to wait until a DirectX 10 game comes out that I'm really interested in before I switch.
Still need to wait for next gen Directx10 supported video cards as well. I think I will pass
on the 8800 series from Nvidia.
 
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The source board is kinda an "inner sanctum" forum where the old Air Warrior alpha community hides and hangs out. It's located on a private NNTP news server (not HTML).

The writer was in charge of graphics for AW and has since worked for EA and others. I've known him well over 10 years and just assume he speaks "ex-cathedra" on such matters based on his history.

If you wanna quote him - Just quote "Quarters" - like I did. :)

-W


-W
 
O.k., thanks. Yeah, I definitely found that post very informative. Thanks again
 
Saw this posted elsewhere by a guy I know whos a game dev in the graphics area. He still hates Vista - but wants to clear up a misconception.
....

Interesting read. I didn't know that Vista has the renderer in user mode.
I still believe it would be possible to port the DX10 API to 2000/XP. (Maybe I'm wrong, this isn't my area of expertise)
 
Vista

What a bunch of crap. So why even have a license? What happened to having a PC(Personal Computer)

I have Game Jackal 5.8 (pRO) and it works fine on Vista Build 6000.

I reason I bought GJ is that I have over 600+ games in my collection. I do not use the orginal CD/DVD to play the game. The cd's wear out or get so badly scatched that they are unuseable. And of course the game manufacter is not going to replace the game.

I would also be nice to pay for the license through PayPal since alot of people don't have credit cards. Let me know when on the latter and I'll update my GJ to slyfox.

Thanks

Bob Garlick
A.K.A. TheGameKing
 
You should be aware that there is no real technical reason for DX10 not running under XP or Windows 2000.
Microsoft doesn't *want* this, because they *want* you to buy Vista.
If you do, they have succeeded. If nobody does, the software publishers will beat Microsoft long and hard to release DX10 for XP.

Okay, I am living in a dream world... :eek:

Actually, you may find this interesting, James and everyone else. :)

Here's an exerpt from the blog:

As a fitting start to this blog, I'm proud to release a preview of our DirectX 10 compatibility libraries. These libraries allow the use of DirectX 10 games on platforms other than Microsoft Vista, and increase hardware compatibility even on Vista, by compiling Geometry Shaders down to native machine code for execution where hardware isn't capable of running it. No longer will you have to upgrade your OS and video card(s) to play the latest games.

Very very interesting, indeed. :)
 
Thank you for posting that link. I'll be keeping a close eye on that.

I figured other people would find it as interesting as me. :)

And, I've never really bought the whole idea that they couldn't make a DX10 for XP anyway. Alright, it might not function exactly the same but I think the fact that it's been said to be essentially impossible by MS makes it smack of complete BS. At the very least compatibility is achievable if they wanted it to be. MS certainly has the manpower and money. They just want people to upgrade so here's a perfect way to push it.

I just always find it fun to watch a small group do something that someone like MS says just can't be done.
 
The FINAL word on Vista!!! Really, I'm not EVEN joking!!!

I didn't notice a link, or see anybody mention this throughout the thread, but ANYONE with questions or concerns about Vista NEEDS to read this...

This guy is a doctor of computer science, as well as a data security genious... This report has been referred to as "The longest suicide note in history", is constantly being updated, and has been creating a tsunami of crap for Microsoft to deal with... It's a bit technical, but oh so detailed (and a bit frightening)...

Read it if you haven't already, and if you have...Read it again!!!

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
 
An update on the Alky Project. I prevously posted a link and about their efforts to release compatibility libraries for DX10 on XP.

Sunday, May 13, 2007
After months of deliberation, we're proud to announce that we have "merged" with Project VAIO from over at fromvistatoxp.com. Technically speaking, they have joined our ranks and we'll all be operating under the Falling Leaf flag from now on. This is exciting news for us not only because it provides us with some new talent, but it also provides us with a new codebase to merge with our own and work to improve.

One thing this has immediately made possible is a much shorter timeframe on the release of our product for supporting Halo 2 and Shadowrun on Windows XP. You can place preorders of these games on our site through Amazon and receive, free of charge, our initial release of the Alky Compatibility Libraries when they launch. Currently, our estimate is late July, but it isn't solid.

Until next time,
- Brian Thomason
CEO of Falling Leaf Systems
 
Directx 10.1 announced with Vista SP1

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR . . . . . . . :mad::mad:

What the bleepity bleeeping bleep is Microsoft trying to do? Send me to crappy console gaming?

click this: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41577 and read the article

I need to build my girlfriend a system. I was going to go with a 1 gig 850 mhz radeon HD 2900xt 2.0ghz (and if you think my choice is foolish, visit http://www.falcon-nw.com/keltstake/ati_2900xtx.asp . . . also the HD support is better and under Vista 64 Ultimate; I'm noticing slightly better drivers, which really isn't saying much), but it appears that Directx 10 is suddenly obsolete. This must be annoying 8800 gts/gtx/ultra and 2900 owners, who probably paid anywhere from $350-$700 in recent months.

*sigh*

What to do . . . what to do . . .

Pretty annoying to lay down a relatively large chunk of change only to have it made obsolete in about a month or two. ATI's directx 10.1 cards probably won't be released until sometime in 2008 (probably the multiple gpu cards). I don't know about Nvidia.

Microsoft is really making me angry. :mad:
I'm so annoyed at the moment.

I really wish PC Gamers had another choice (I honestly hate console gaming).
 
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